OpinionTechnical

StoneX' Vincent Deluard: The S&P Is Hiding a Bear Market | #655

The Meb Faber Show - Better Investing1h 0m

Vincent Deluard from StoneX argues that despite S&P 500 all-time highs, a majority of individual U.S. stocks are trading below their 200-day moving averages, suggesting a hidden bear market. He's turning bearish on equities and bonds, citing rising real yields, understated inflation, and an unsustainable consumption model that parallels 2006-07, while identifying Europe as following Japan's deflationary playbook but in a messier, crisis-prone manner.

Summary

Vincent Deluard presents a bearish thesis on U.S. equities despite strong index performance. He highlights a critical technical divergence: over 70% of S&P 500 stocks trade below their 200-day moving average while the index hits all-time highs, suggesting the top may catch down rather than the bottom catching up. This bifurcation reflects concentration risk, with the "Magnificent Seven" tech stocks artificially supporting the index while the broader market deteriorates.

Deluard attributes recent nominal growth to four factors: understated inflation (CPI underestimates true cost increases), government deficits at 6% of GDP during full employment, a 3% of GDP tech capex cycle, and productivity gains. He argues true inflation runs 5-6% based on tax collection growth rates, while real wages have turned negative for four consecutive months. Consumer resilience is artificial, driven by stock market wealth effects and 401k withdrawals, mirroring the 2006-07 setup when home equity extraction sustained spending before the crisis.

On inflation, Deluard contends that any future shock will receive an inflationary policy response because governments lack capacity to raise taxes or cut spending significantly. He focuses on agricultural commodity risks, noting diesel price pass-through to food production, fertilizer supply constraints, El Niño climate disruption threatening crop yields in South America and Asia, and the Black Sea grain situation. He views these conditions as potentially creating a destabilizing agricultural shock globally, particularly threatening countries dependent on imported oil and grain.

Deluard draws an extended parallel between Europe's current position and Japan's 2011-12 situation. Both face aging demographics, falling productivity, limited fiscal capacity, and slowing growth. Japan's solution—systematically weaken the currency via coordinated policy (fiscal stimulus, zero rates, forward guidance, institutional sector directives)—resulted in a 13-year yen decline of approximately 50%. Europe faces the same necessity but lacks Japan's unified governance structure. With 17 countries, differing interests, and current inflationary conditions making currency depreciation unpopular, Europe will experience this adjustment chaotically through sequential crises beginning with France, followed by Germany. A 30-50% euro depreciation may eventually occur, but messily.

On technical indicators, Deluard introduces the "shadow VIX" concept: with only 5% average stock correlation to the index and a third of stocks at negative beta, actual volatility is suppressed. Recalculating VIX with normal 50-60% correlation yields approximately 40, while bond market volatility (MOVE index) sits at all-time highs. This divergence indicates mean reversion ahead, likely through rising equity volatility rather than falling bond volatility.

Regarding capital flows and currency opportunities, Deluard favors Japanese yen and South Korean won. Japan's strong tax collection growth (7% annually), with G exceeding R, means it's exiting its debt crisis. The won benefits from a tsunami of capital inflows: South Korea and Taiwan maintain 25% of GDP current account surpluses with Samsung alone generating $1 billion daily profit. This money eventually leaks into consumer spending and investment, pressuring rates and currency appreciation, creating favorable rates and currency trades.

On emerging markets, Deluard notes his colleagues at StoneX observed significant profit-taking by local managers in Brazil following the recent election, despite foreigners' underweight positioning. While Brazilian fundamentals weren't as dire as Argentina's, locals took risk off due to skepticism about political reform durability. However, for underexposed foreign investors, Brazil's low multiples and political tailwinds remain attractive, particularly through big oil and banking names benefiting from currency appreciation as foreign capital enters.

Deluard provides specific data on crypto adoption, noting South Korea leads globally at 20% of population, followed by the U.S. at 15%, Taiwan, Brazil, and Mexico. This concentration reflects Korean gambling culture, historical banking crises, and capital account repression making alternative assets attractive. He suggests the Korean surplus recycling through bonus payments and government spending will boost crypto prices over a multi-year horizon despite unfavorable macro conditions (rising real yields, Democratic political dominance).

On France specifically, Deluard identifies every marker of a severe sovereign debt crisis: high debt, persistent primary deficit, foreign financing reliance in a non-printable currency, low growth, and politically constrained options on tax increases or spending cuts. France's R minus G gap is the most negative in developed markets, distinguishing it from Germany (which can afford it) and the U.S. (where G is high). He expects political instability and crisis dynamics to drive policy outcomes rather than thoughtful strategic implementation.

About this episode

My guest today is Vincent Deluard, Director of Global Macro Strategy at StoneX. In today’s episode, Vincent explains why he’s turning bearish on stocks after years of being a bull. He shares why tax collections are his favorite gauge of the economy, why the world is really paying $150 to $200 for oil and why Europe resembles Japan in 2012, just uglier.  To close, Vincent makes the case for owning the yen, Korean won and UK stocks. (0:00) Bull Market or Bear Market? (3:04) The Bifurcated Economy (6:50) Turning Bearish on Stocks (10:31) Midterm Politics and the Policy Put (14:20) Shadow Oil and Inflation (22:47) Shadow VIX and Market Churn (26:40) Europe Looking Like Japan (38:54) Bond Yields and Global Rotation (46:08) Brazil, Korea, and France ----- Sponsors: ⁠⁠ Upwork⁠⁠ is the world's largest human and AI-powered freelance marketplace to hire top talent—trusted by businesses and professionals worldwide. ----- Follow Meb on X, LinkedIn and YouTube For detailed show notes, click here To learn more about our funds and follow us, subscribe to our mailing list or visit us at cambriainvestments.com ----- Follow The Idea Farm: X | LinkedIn | Instagram | TikTok ----- Interested in sponsoring the show? Email us at [email protected] ----- Past guests include Ed Thorp, Richard Thaler, Jeremy Grantham, Joel Greenblatt, Campbell Harvey, Ivy Zelman, Kathryn Kaminski, Jason Calacanis, Whitney Baker, Aswath Damodaran, Howard Marks, Tom Barton, and many more.  ----- Meb's invested in some awesome startups that have passed along discounts to our listeners. Check them out here!  ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (https://thepodcastconsultant.com).

Key Insights

  • Deluard argues that over 70% of S&P 500 stocks trade below their 200-day moving averages while the index reaches all-time highs, indicating index concentration rather than broad market strength and suggesting technical mean reversion ahead.
  • He contends true underlying inflation runs 5-6% based on personal income tax collection growth rates, but official CPI understates this due to methodological issues, creating a hidden erosion of real purchasing power.
  • Deluard claims consumer spending resilience is artificial, sustained by stock market wealth effects and systematic 401k withdrawals—a dynamic identical to 2006-07 when home equity extraction preceded the financial crisis.
  • He argues that real wages have turned negative for four consecutive months after initial positive readings this year, meaning most workers make no real progress despite nominal income growth.
  • Deluard identifies agriculture as the most dangerous inflation vector, combining diesel price pass-through to food production, fertilizer supply constraints, El Niño crop disruption risks, and Black Sea grain blockades into a perfect stagflationary storm.
  • He contends that any future economic shock will receive inflationary policy responses because governments lack fiscal capacity to raise taxes or cut spending, ensuring inflation becomes structurally embedded.
  • Deluard argues Europe must depreciate its currency by 30-50% to escape its productivity crisis and debt trap, mirroring Japan's solution, but lacks Japan's unified governance and faces inflationary headwinds making this adjustment chaotic and crisis-driven.
  • He claims France hits every technical marker of a sovereign debt crisis: high debt, persistent primary deficits, foreign financing dependence, non-printable currency, low growth, and politically constrained fiscal options—with the worst R-minus-G gap among developed nations.
  • Deluard contends that South Korea and Taiwan's massive current account surpluses (25% of GDP annually) create a multi-year tsunami of capital inflows that will eventually leak into consumption and investment, forcing central bank rate increases despite policy wishes.
  • He identifies an unprecedented technical divergence where bond market volatility (MOVE index at all-time highs) severely exceeds equity volatility (VIX near normal levels) due to suppressed stock correlations, signaling mean reversion through rising equity volatility.
  • Deluard argues Korean crypto adoption (20% of population) reflects rational responses to historical banking crises and currency repression rather than pure speculation, making it a beneficiary of capital recycling from Korean surpluses.
  • He claims the midterm election outcome will likely produce a blue wave and gridlock focused on investigation and impeachment rather than policy-making, creating a 70s-style stagflationary policy environment with partisan blame-shifting between parties.

Topics

Stock market technical divergence and hidden bear marketInflation measurement and understated CPIConsumer spending sustainability and 2006-07 parallelsGovernment fiscal constraints and policy responsesAgricultural commodity risks and supply chain disruptionsEurope versus Japan debt crisis comparisonCurrency depreciation as economic policy mechanismFrench sovereign debt crisis setupEmerging markets and capital flowsAsian currency and rates trading opportunitiesCryptocurrency adoption patterns and capital recyclingTechnical market indicators: VIX, MOVE, correlation divergence

Transcript

US stocks, all time highs up over 10% this year. We still in a bull. A majority of US stocks would disagree with you. I'm turning bearish on stocks. We have about a third of US stocks trading at negative beta. We are living in a $150 to $200 oil world. I don't know what the next shock will be, but I know it will be inflationary because the policy reaction will be inflationary. You can't raise taxes. You can't cut spending. We tried that already. You can't really take other people's land. I mean, we tried that with Greenland. Europe today is where Japan was in 2011, 12, just uglier. Perfect hit for France. We hit every single marker…

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