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David Booth: 45 Years to $1 Trillion at Dimensional | #646

The Meb Faber Show - Better Investing38m 34s

David Booth, founder of Dimensional Fund Advisors, discusses his 45-year journey building a $1 trillion asset management firm grounded in academic research from Gene Fama and others. He reflects on early challenges including a brutal nine-year period where small-cap stocks underperformed, the importance of maintaining conviction in sensible investment processes despite short-term disappointment, and how investor behavior—particularly the tendency to sell after underperformance—remains the greatest obstacle to long-term wealth building.

Summary

David Booth traces Dimensional Fund Advisors' origins to his work at Wells Fargo in the early 1970s, where he was part of a cutting-edge group developing some of the first index funds. Working alongside Gene Fama, Fisher Black, and Myron Scholes, Booth helped create indexed portfolio strategies when the concept was revolutionary. After Wells Fargo's index fund business was eventually sold (eventually becoming part of BlackRock), Booth and his colleagues regrouped in 1981 to launch Dimensional.

The firm's early years were torturous. Starting with only a small-cap fund, DFA entered the worst nine-year period for small stocks in history relative to large stocks. From launch through 1990, the fund compounded at 2% annually while the S&P 500 returned 14% annually. Despite delivering exactly what small-cap stocks delivered (slightly outperforming the Russell 2000 benchmark), the strategy was brutal to sell. Booth recounts being accosted in a client's hallway and told he was the worst-performing manager in any asset category. His response was to ask which part of the fundamental argument—that small stocks are riskier and risk-reward are related—the client no longer believed in.

The turning point came with the Fama-French three-factor model (published in 1992), which provided empirical validation for multiple dimensions of return: market factor, size factor (large vs. small), and value vs. growth. Booth received a draft from Gene Fama in September 1991 and used it to convince a major client to launch value strategies with DFA before the paper was even published.

Booth emphasizes that the core challenge in investing is behavioral, not analytical. Investors claim to be long-term but typically give strategies one to three years before abandoning them. He argues it takes "at least one year longer than you're willing to give it" to properly evaluate an investment strategy. The real problem emerges at the sell decision: while investors are process-oriented when buying (reading prospectuses, doing due diligence), 90% have no predetermined criteria for selling. When inevitable underperformance occurs, emotional motivation to sell intensifies.

He draws parallels between investing and life generally, arguing that both are complex and uncertain. Rather than trying to predict outcomes, people should develop sensible plans, pay attention to results, and adapt flexibly—making maybe half a dozen major shifts over a lifetime rather than constantly trading.

Booth notes that the greatest breakthrough in investing has been the combination of empirical evidence that professional managers can't consistently beat markets plus the ability to buy market exposure cheaply. He references his family history: his parents, Depression-era and post-WWII generation, kept $15,000 in cash in a safe deposit box. Booth calculates that $15,000 invested in 1945 would have grown to over $1 million by 1985 (40 years), and another $1 million by 2025 (another 40 years). His parents, thinking of themselves as outsiders vulnerable to insider manipulation, never invested.

Regarding current market concerns like AI, Booth suggests the technology's inevitability doesn't predict which companies will win or lose, comparing it to the California gold rush where Levi Strauss (selling to miners) often outperformed the miners themselves. This reinforces the case for holding broad market portfolios rather than picking individual stocks or trends.

On financial education, Booth laments that high school graduates lack basic knowledge about balancing checkbooks, understanding stock and bond returns, and basic economics. He argues this gap contributes to anti-capitalist sentiment and that economics fundamentally teaches decision-making under uncertainty—applicable to all life decisions.

Booth also discusses his acquisition of James Naismith's original 1891 handwritten rules of basketball (two typewritten pages), which he donated to the University of Kansas. He describes the experience of seeing these two pages that "changed the world."

On sustaining a business through early unprofitable years, Booth stresses absolute conviction in the value proposition. DFA didn't pay dividends for its first 15 years but survived by maintaining belief in the fundamental ideas while working hard and playing the long game. He never doubted the firm had a great idea—only whether they could survive long enough until performance normalized.

About this episode

Today’s guest is David Booth, founder of Dimensional Fund Advisors, which now manages over $1 trillion. He studied under Eugene Fama at Chicago and helped build one of the first index funds at Wells Fargo. In today’s episode, David traces Dimensional’s arc from indexing’s earliest days at Wells Fargo to crossing $1 trillion in AUM this year. He shares what Gene Fama said when he got the call, the story of driving a client to Chicago to walk through the Fama-French paper, and why AI investing looks like the California gold rush. To close, David makes the case for judging yourself by decisions, not outcomes. (0:00) Introduction (0:58) David Booth's start to investing (3:38) The beginnings of index funds and early challenges at Dimensional (10:09) Long-term investment perspectives and the Fama-French three-factor model (17:26) Dimensional’s educational focus and advisor partnerships (20:21) Small cap value performance, AI & market trends (23:26) Symbolism of bankrupt stock certificates and lessons on diversification (25:44) Compounding for 45 years (30:56) David's passion for Kansas basketball ----- Sponsor: ⁠Upwork⁠ is the world's largest human and AI-powered freelance marketplace to hire top talent—trusted by businesses and professionals worldwide. Follow Meb on X, LinkedIn and YouTube For detailed show notes, click here To learn more about our funds and follow us, subscribe to our mailing list or visit us at cambriainvestments.com ----- Follow The Idea Farm: X | LinkedIn | Instagram | TikTok ----- Interested in sponsoring the show? Email us at [email protected] ----- Past guests include Ed Thorp, Richard Thaler, Jeremy Grantham, Joel Greenblatt, Campbell Harvey, Ivy Zelman, Kathryn Kaminski, Jason Calacanis, Whitney Baker, Aswath Damodaran, Howard Marks, Tom Barton, and many more.  ----- Meb's invested in some awesome startups that have passed along discounts to our listeners. Check them out here!  ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (https://thepodcastconsultant.com).

Key Insights

  • Booth argues that the core problem with investor decision-making is not at the buy decision—where investors conduct due diligence—but at the sell decision, where 90% of investors have no predetermined criteria and end up selling during inevitable underperformance
  • DFA experienced its worst nine-year performance in its first nine years, compounding at 2% annually while the S&P 500 returned 14%, yet the firm survived by acknowledging they delivered exactly what small-cap stocks delivered and maintaining conviction in the underlying investment thesis
  • Booth claims that assessing whether an investment strategy is genuinely good requires at least 60+ years of data, which far exceeds the typical investor's willingness to wait (usually 1-3 years), creating a fundamental mismatch between how long evaluation takes and investor patience
  • Booth contends that most investors make process-oriented buy decisions but emotion-driven sell decisions, often driven by the psychological need to blame themselves when results are disappointing rather than accepting that good decisions can have poor short-term outcomes
  • The Fama-French three-factor model (1992) provided empirical evidence that returns have multiple dimensions (market, size, and value), validating DFA's investment approach and shifting the conversation from theoretical framework to proven academic research
  • Booth argues that the greatest improvement in investing has been the combination of evidence that professional managers can't consistently outperform markets plus the ability to cheaply access market returns, fundamentally changing access to wealth building for ordinary investors
  • Booth identifies a generational gap where Depression-era and post-war parents viewed markets as rigged for insiders and kept large amounts of cash in safe deposit boxes, missing out on exponential wealth compounding while gold only appreciated 5x versus stocks' 100x+ over 45 years
  • For AI and emerging technologies, Booth argues that knowing a technology will be transformative (like AI) provides no insight into which companies will win or lose, making individual stock selection in emerging sectors a poor strategy compared to holding diversified market exposure

Topics

Index funds and factor-based investing historySmall-cap underperformance period (1981-1990)Fama-French three-factor modelBehavioral investing and investor psychologyShort-termism vs. long-term investing convictionSell decisions and performance chasingFinancial education gapsBusiness resilience through extended unprofitable periods

Transcript

We were the first people to treat small cap as a separate asset category. Small stocks underperformed large stocks by the most they ever had over a nine-year period. Investing is complex and uncertain for sure, but so is life. In February this year when we crossed a trillion dollars in assets under management, when I found out, I called up Gene Fama. He was out in LA. I go, hey Gene, we just crossed a trillion dollars in assets under management. He goes, holy s**t. Welcome to the MedFaber show, where the focus is on helping you grow and preserve your wealth. Join us as we discuss the craft of investing and uncover new and profitable ideas, all to…

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