How Much Longer Can This Cycle Run?
Andreas Snogerup Linné and Raoul Pal discuss macroeconomic conditions, geopolitical risks, and market divergences on Real Vision's Macro Mondays. They analyze the ISM services print, French political risks, oil market dynamics, and the viability of the current economic cycle, arguing that markets are misprice certain risks.
Summary
The episode opens with a debate clip between Tucker Carlson and Jacob Rees-Mogg about Russia's economic capacity compared to the UK. While Rees-Mogg correctly notes the UK has higher nominal GDP, Andreas argues Tucker has a point about Russia's wartime economic resilience due to self-sufficiency in energy, minerals, and food—advantages that matter more in conflict scenarios than raw GDP figures. This leads to a broader discussion about economic self-sufficiency as a measure of sovereignty in uncertain times, particularly relevant for Europe's dependence on imports.
The hosts discuss upcoming content, including an interview with energy analyst Josh Young about oil markets and Middle East dynamics. Andreas makes a striking claim that more raw oil is currently flowing out of the Middle East than before the Iran conflict, despite assumptions to the contrary, and suggests this dynamic is poorly understood by markets. He argues the U.S. has effectively won the Battle of Hormuz strategically, which may reduce Trump's urgency to negotiate an Iran deal despite electoral pressure, as even a deal may come too late to impact midterm inflation.
Regarding AI and tech policy under potential Democratic control, both hosts dismiss fears that a Democratic sweep would kill AI momentum. They argue that regulatory impulses from figures like Bernie Sanders and AOC represent political messaging rather than viable policy, and that once in power, Democrats would prioritize AI development as essential to military competitiveness against China. Andreas cites Democratic Senator John Fetterman's argument that blocking AI amounts to a China-first policy.
The ISM services index came in at 54.9 versus consensus 55.7, validating their pre-release nowcast of 54.4 directionally. Despite weak growth signals across manufacturing, services, and nonfarm payrolls, equity markets rallied—opposite to stated policy preferences. Andreas notes the concerning combination of soft growth but elevated price expectations from businesses, creating unfavorable conditions for bond investments. He questions why the dollar remains strong versus the Euro given weak U.S. data, noting their July dollar skepticism has proven correct when measured against gold, yen, and Bitcoin, with Euro weakness driven more by France-specific factors.
France receives extensive analysis. Credit spreads to Germany have blown out to levels suggesting junk status, driven by Asian account selling due to budget uncertainty and Marine Le Pen polling strength ahead of the April presidential election. Andreas argues this reprices excessive risk, drawing parallels to 2016 Trump market panic. He contends Le Pen and the National Rally, if elected, cannot dramatically reshape policy due to parliamentary constraints and ECB dependency, making French bonds potentially attractive. Raoul adds that while Le Pen may win the first round with 35-40%, her actual presidential election probability is only around 50% due to runoff dynamics where opposition consolidates behind a centrist candidate—a historical pattern costing her family previous elections.
On the business cycle, Andreas frames the central question as whether central banks will hike rates enough to kill the cycle before reversing course. He presents arguments for both mid-cycle and late-cycle scenarios, with some evidence supporting 2027 as potential cycle end, but emphasizes uncertainty.
Final takeaway: Andreas identifies key mispricing in currency markets (dollar/euro), geopolitical perception (Iran deal urgency), and political risk (France). He suggests the convergence of these factors—combined with genuine AI investment momentum and France as a contrarian opportunity—creates an attractive macro setup similar to April conditions.
About this episode
Andreas Steno and Mikkel Rosenvold are back to tackle the question that matters most for markets right now: are we still mid-cycle, or are the warning signs of a late-cycle economy starting to pile up? They also head to Europe, where surging French bond yields, political uncertainty, and renewed concerns over the country’s finances are putting pressure on French assets. Is the turmoil a genuine warning for investors — or exactly the kind of dislocation you should be buying? Plus, Andreas and ...
Key Insights
- Andreas argues that Russia's economic resilience in wartime scenarios depends more on self-sufficiency in energy, minerals, and food than nominal GDP figures, making conventional GDP comparisons less relevant for conflict scenarios.
- Despite widespread market assumptions that the Strait of Hormuz is closed, Andreas claims more raw crude oil is actually flowing from the Middle East than before the Iran conflict, indicating markets fundamentally misunderstand current oil supply dynamics.
- Andreas contends that Democratic politicians' public opposition to AI represents political messaging rather than implementable policy, and that once in power, Democrats would prioritize AI development to maintain military technological superiority against China.
- The ISM services print of 54.9 against consensus 55.7 validated their directional nowcast, showing soft growth combined with elevated business price expectations—a combination Andreas identifies as unfavorable for bonds despite equity market rallies.
- Andreas argues French bond credit spreads blowing out to junk-like levels compared to Germany overstate actual policy risks, as Marine Le Pen's party would face parliamentary constraints and ECB dependency that limit their ability to execute radical changes.
- Raoul explains that Marine Le Pen's actual probability of winning the French presidency is approximately 50% despite leading first-round polling at 35-40%, because runoff election dynamics historically force opposition voters to consolidate behind a centrist candidate.
- Andreas frames the business cycle question as fundamentally about whether central banks will raise rates aggressively enough to kill economic growth before reversing course, creating uncertainty about whether current conditions represent mid-cycle or late-cycle positioning.
- Andreas identifies a specific market divergence where weak U.S. economic data (manufacturing, services, payrolls) contradicts continued dollar strength versus the Euro, suggesting the dollar move may be incorrectly positioned given underlying growth fundamentals.
Topics
Transcript
Sometimes it may be good, sometimes it may be shit. It's Macro Mondays, big picture, clear play, stocks, bonds, FX, crypto on the way. Get context, strategy right now on your screen. Macro Mondays, level up your week, oh yeah. Hello out there, welcome to Real Vision, welcome to Macro Mondays. Oh yeah. cycle. So I know lots of that stuff could be misinterpreted. So hang on and get everything from us, including a view on the just released PMI number. So lots of stuff going on, Andreas. I want to start with the wonderful, my video of the week, my laugh of the week, the wonderful Tucker Carlson, Jake and Breeze mock interview, because I urge people to watch…
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