#312 Sabrina Pasterski - Theoretical Physicist on the Hidden Code of the Universe
Theoretical physicist Sabrina Gonzalez-Pasterski discusses her unconventional path from building a plane as a 12-year-old to leading the Celestial Holography Initiative at the Perimeter Institute. She explains her research on gravitational memory effects and holographic frameworks for uniting quantum mechanics and general relativity, while reflecting on the sociology of physics, AI's potential impact on the field, and her complicated relationship with the 'next Einstein' label.
Summary
The episode features Sabrina Gonzalez-Pasterski, a first-generation Cuban-American theoretical physicist, discussing her life trajectory and cutting-edge research. She grew up in Chicago with lawyer parents, attended public gifted schools, and developed an early obsession with flight after taking lessons at age nine. Between ages 12 and 14, she built a single-engine Zenith CH601XL airplane, which became a networking tool that helped her get off MIT's waitlist after being rejected by Harvard. Her parents used extrinsic motivation heavily throughout her upbringing, and her father's electrical engineering background meant the family did their own repairs.
Sabrina describes her early internships at Boeing, Blue Origin, NASA's Kennedy Space Center, and CERN, noting that each experience somewhat disillusioned her about the pace of engineering progress. At CERN, she happened to be present during the Higgs boson discovery. She chose to major in physics at MIT partly to impress tech heroes like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, who both had physics backgrounds. She graduated first in her class at MIT physics — the first woman to do so — before pursuing her PhD at Harvard in high energy theoretical physics.
During her PhD, she made early contributions connecting asymptotic symmetries to soft physics, including the spin memory effect — a variant of the gravitational memory effect related to angular momentum loss in gravitational waves. Stephen Hawking cited her papers, and her dissertation became only the second Harvard physics PhD published in Physics Reports. She discusses how the 'next Einstein' label emerged from media coverage and acknowledges it generated both benefits and backlash within the physics community.
The bulk of the technical discussion centers on celestial holography — her initiative aimed at reformulating scattering amplitudes using variables on the celestial sphere (the two-dimensional night sky). She explains this as an attempt to generalize holographic principles (like AdS/CFT correspondence from string theory) to asymptotically flat spacetimes. Rather than claiming the universe literally IS a hologram, she frames it as finding an equivalent boundary description that may be computationally useful and could help unify quantum mechanics and general relativity.
Sabrina also discusses black holes, explaining that spaghettification occurs near singularities, that the information paradox arises from trying to apply quantum field theory to black hole backgrounds, and that the horizon crossing itself may not feel special for large black holes. She expresses skepticism about the literal interpretation of holography while acknowledging its mathematical utility.
On broader topics, she shares nuanced views on AI — initially skeptical due to overhyping, but now genuinely excited about vibe coding tools like Claude Code that allow her to prototype research tools without needing a dev team. She is critical of how physics funding works through universities optimized for education revenue rather than research. She praises the Perimeter Institute's model as a focused research institution. She discusses the US-China physics race with measured optimism for US leadership, notes the sociological gatekeeping in the field that limits talent from India and China, and expresses belief in extraterrestrial life on statistical grounds while dismissing UFO conspiracy theories.
About this episode
Sabrina Gonzalez Pasterski is a first-generation Cuban-American theoretical physicist from Chicago whose life has been shaped by flight and physics. She began flight lessons at age nine and, between ages 12 and 14, built a single-engine Zenith CH 601 XL aircraft from a kit, making her own engineering modifications after fatal midair breakups involving the model. At 16, before she had a driver’s license, she flew the aircraft solo. The FAA later allowed her demonstration flight to validate her modifications before grounding the fleet. At MIT, Pasterski became the first freshman selected for NASA’s January Operational Internship, received the inaugural MIT Freshman Entrepreneurship Award, interned at NASA Kennedy Space Center and CERN, and graduated first in her MIT Physics class. She earned her PhD from Harvard in 2019 under Andrew Strominger, focusing on quantum gravity, then joined Canada’s Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics at 27 as its youngest faculty member and one of only three women on staff at the time. She now leads the Celestial Holography Initiative, and her honors include Scientific American’s 30 Under 30, Forbes 30 Under 30 in Science, and the Albert Einstein Foundation’s “100 Greatest Innovators.” Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: Live better longer with BUBS Naturals. Get 20% OFF on collagen, MCT creamers, and more with code SHAWN at https://bubsnaturals.com/srs Go to https://calderalab.com/SRS and use code SRS for 20% off your first order. Ready to upgrade your eyewear? Check them out at https://roka.com and use code SRS for 20% off sitewide. Sign up and get 10% off at https://betterhelp.com/srs #ad Sabrina Pasterski Links: Perimeter Institute - https://perimeterinstitute.ca/people/sabrina-pasterski Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Key Insights
- Pasterski argues that the 'next Einstein' label, while beneficial for visibility, is inaccurate and creates friction within the physics community, where popular scientists are often distanced from serious research circles.
- She claims her motivation for entering physics was partly to impress tech entrepreneurs like Musk and Bezos who had physics backgrounds — which she acknowledges was 'the wrong reason to go into the field.'
- Pasterski argues that the gravitational memory effect creates a permanent imprint in spacetime from gravitational wave events — detectors will show a net displacement after a wave passes that persists until another event moves them.
- She contends that the spin memory effect she discovered is a subliding soft theorem analog connecting angular momentum loss in gravitational radiation to an asymptotic symmetry of spacetime.
- Pasterski argues that celestial holography is not a claim that 'everything is a hologram' but rather an attempt to find an equivalent boundary description for flat spacetimes analogous to AdS/CFT, which may be computationally advantageous.
- She argues that experimental physics at CERN doesn't directly observe particles like the Higgs boson — it infers their existence from consistency of decay products with theoretical predictions, which she finds less satisfying than direct observation like gravitational wave detection.
- Pasterski claims that physics academia self-selects for people comfortable with the status quo, creating emergent conservatism that isn't due to bad actors but to natural attrition of those who don't fit the existing system.
- She argues that AI coding tools like Claude Code have democratized access to computational research, allowing a theorist with limited coding skills to build tools that previously would have required hiring a dev team.
- Pasterski contends that the US still leads China in theoretical physics, partly because the US pipeline draws global talent through elite institutions, while China compensates by hiring researchers who couldn't get US jobs.
- She argues that the Perimeter Institute's model — a focused private-public partnership for pure theoretical physics — is superior to university settings where research competes with educational revenue streams for institutional priority.
- Pasterski claims that physics funding would be better served by finding ways to create value from the engineering byproducts of research infrastructure (as CERN helped birth the World Wide Web) rather than relying on taxpayer appeals about future applications.
- She argues that the cosmological constant may not be truly constant based on recent experimental hints, which has implications for whether string theory's preferred spacetime geometry (anti-de Sitter) is actually relevant to our universe.
- Pasterski contends that most UFO sightings are likely misidentifications or optical illusions, and that conspiracy theories appeal because they imply a more organized, powerful hidden structure than actually exists.
- She argues that black hole singularities represent regions where classical approximations break down so severely that quantum gravity effects must dominate, meaning classical predictions about what happens there are simply invalid.
- Pasterski argues that networking as a child with physical artifacts — a photo book of her airplane build and business cards — gave her unusual access to MIT faculty and aerospace executives because a young child with impressive credentials is socially disarming in a way adults cannot replicate.
Topics
Transcript
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