Advice For 20 Year Olds | Smosh Mouth 146
Smoshmouth hosts Shane and Amanda interview Rory Kramer, a director and they/them non-binary person, in a wide-ranging conversation covering gender identity, the difference between your 20s and 30s, creative integrity, and personal growth. Rory shares their experience coming out as non-binary after their father's death in middle school triggered a lifelong performance of femininity for safety and status. The conversation weaves between personal vulnerability, industry observations about creative integrity, and humor about Justin Bieber and relationship terminology.
Summary
The episode opens with clarifications about Justin Bieber — Rory doesn't know him personally, though his photographer is named Rory Kramer — before establishing the show's tone as a genuine, vulnerable conversation, despite all three guests acknowledging their tendencies to perform when on camera. Rory in particular identifies a 'propensity to perform' their entire life, framing this as something they want to move away from.
A significant portion of the conversation explores relationship and gender terminology — when does a 'girl' become a 'woman,' when does a 'boy' become a 'man,' and what do couples call each other beyond 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend.' Rory, as a they/them non-binary person, shares that they prefer being called someone's 'lover' rather than 'partner,' which they find too clinical and corporate. Amanda shares that she disliked the word 'husband' after marriage because of its institutional connotations, and Shane echoes that 'wife' feels too sitcom-adjacent.
Rory then opens up about their gender identity journey. They describe always knowing from as young as one and a half years old that they didn't identify as a girl, but after their father died when they were 11, they were 'sorted into the wrong pile' and developed a survival strategy of excelling at performing femininity for safety and social status. They describe this as being 'method actor good' — a beautiful girl who benefited from that system — but living with a constant, unexplained feeling of homesickness that was only alleviated after exploring gender identity in recent years.
Rory explains the difference between coming out as gay versus coming out as non-binary/trans: coming out as gay doesn't require others to participate, while gender identity shifts require active participation from people around you, making it more vulnerable. They describe getting top surgery as 'hanging up their jersey' — giving up a role they had perfected. They frame the trans experience as similar to The Matrix: dying and respawning, having to reestablish all the terms of one's life.
The conversation shifts to comparing one's 20s and 30s. Rory describes the 20s as 'yes, yes, yes — try everything,' while the 30s are 'no,' with sharp refusals that gradually soften into 'no thank you.' All three discuss how patterns and shadow selves become unavoidable in your 30s, how ego becomes harder to ignore, and how the pressure of productivity and achievement starts to feel hollow. Shane reflects on building a career around the dreams of a traumatized 14-year-old who believed Hollywood would save them, and the disillusionment of success not solving everything.
A long, passionate segment covers creative integrity and the responsibility artists have to their audience's attention. Rory shares advice from a director in London who told them they were setting the bar low on purpose to overachieve without preparation, and that their real job was to honor the audience's time. This reframed Rory's entire approach to making work. All three discuss the difference between holding attention versus entertaining with intention, criticizing the spectacle-driven, view-chasing content that dominates YouTube and social media, while praising creators like Contrapoints, FD Signifier, Jenny Nicholson, and Drew Gooden who take time to make something they genuinely care about.
The episode closes with discussion of Smosh's upcoming Bit City series, which Rory created and directed, and their $400 short film 'A Holiday Casserole Your Man Will Love,' which they describe as one of their favorite things they've ever made precisely because it was made purely for the joy of it, without any external goal.
Key Insights
- Rory describes their gender identity journey as being 'sorted into the wrong pile' after their father died at age 11, and responding by becoming exceptionally good at performing femininity as a survival strategy — using social status as a safety mechanism during a period of profound grief and instability.
- Rory argues that coming out as non-binary/trans is fundamentally more vulnerable than coming out as gay because it requires active participation from others — you need people to actually change their behavior — whereas coming out as gay doesn't require anyone else's permission or behavioral change.
- A director in London told Rory that deliberately setting the bar low to easily overachieve was a failure of responsibility to the audience — that the job of a performer is to honor the audience's time and show why you deserve their attention, not to make yourself look good by comparison.
- Rory characterizes the 20s as a decade of 'yes' — trying everything — while the 30s force unavoidable confrontation with shadow selves and patterns, with the 'nos' starting sharp and gradually softening into 'no thank you.' They argue this confrontation happens regardless of whether you're ready for it.
- Rory identifies using deep questions and curiosity about others as a safety blanket and control mechanism — a way of appearing to connect while actually controlling the narrative and avoiding genuine vulnerability, something they describe as 'tricking myself into thinking I'm connecting.'
Topics
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