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Advice Line with Danny Meyer of Shake Shack

How I Built This with Guy Raz41m 58s

Danny Meyer, founder of Union Square Hospitality Group and Shake Shack, joins Guy Raz to advise three early-stage founders on scaling their beverage and food businesses. Meyer emphasizes building authentic hospitality through expected behaviors rather than family values, creating community around brands, and starting small before pursuing aggressive expansion.

Summary

The episode features Danny Meyer in his advisory capacity on 'The Advice Line,' discussing his evolution from CEO to executive chairman at Union Square Hospitality Group. Meyer explains his shift in focus to culture, culinary product, and creative business ventures while delegating operational management. He articulates his philosophy that culture is defined by wanted behaviors celebrated and unwanted behaviors tolerated, replacing the earlier framework of 'family values' with 'expected behaviors' to enable accountability without grief-laden departures. Meyer illustrates this through observations of staff engagement—noting that genuine hospitality manifests when employees are focused on their work and enjoying each other's company, creating an energy that becomes part of the customer experience. He discusses his 'day one mentality' principle, encouraging teams to maintain pride in their work regardless of how long a restaurant has operated.

Three founders present distinct challenges: Janelle Bass of Pony Boy Slings (bourbon-based canned cocktails) asks how to build hospitality into packaged goods when in-store tastings aren't possible. Meyer advises personalizing the brand through storytelling and making the can itself a 'bartender' through playful messaging. He references Ramona canned wine as a case study where the founder's personality and specific vision permeate the product experience. Jade Taylor of Angel Oak Smokehouse (premium smoked salmon) seeks guidance on whether to pursue direct-to-consumer shipping via platforms like Goldbelly versus consolidating retail expansion. Meyer and Raz debate this: Meyer suggests experimenting with Goldbelly on a limited basis to gather demand data without capacity expansion, while Raz recommends prioritizing retail solidification given existing momentum in 42 Whole Foods and upcoming Harris Teeter placements. They suggest starting with smaller gourmet retailers seeking scarcity rather than immediately targeting major chains.

Barb Bruhi of Boost Coos (protein and fiber-rich couscous made from chickpea, lentil, and pea flour) inquires about entering food service at major chains like Kava and Sweetgreen. Meyer advises starting with smaller restaurants already featuring couscous on their menus rather than educating major chains on a new category. He and Raz suggest targeting chefs and creating proof points, leveraging the Mediterranean food trend and the GLP-1/high-protein demographic. Bruhi reveals the company has achieved a $2 million run rate while bootstrapped and first-order profitable, with 150,000+ boxes shipped via direct-to-consumer. Meyer congratulates him on early success and emphasizes that scaling requires attention to team building and culture, noting Bruhi's purchase of Meyer's book 'What Could Possibly Go Right?' on these topics. Throughout the episode, Meyer returns to themes of authentic storytelling, community building, and starting small before aggressive scaling.

About this episode

<p>Today’s callers: Janell from Kentucky wonders how to build a sense of hospitality into her canned bourbon cocktail brand. Jade from South Carolina considers the upsides and risks of shipping her smoked salmon directly to customers. And Bar from Colorado considers strategies for bringing his protein-packed cous cous to quick service restaurants.</p><p><br /></p><p>Plus Danny talks about the elements of a strong company culture as described in his new book, <em>What Could Possibly Go Right?</em></p><p><br /></p><p>Thank you to the founders of Ponyboy Slings, Angel Oak Smokehouse, and Boostcous for being a part of our show.</p><p><br /></p><p>If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode—where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders—leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to <a href="mailto:[email protected]" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> or call 1-800-433-1298.&nbsp;</p><p><br /></p><p>And be sure to listen to <a href="https://art19.com/shows/831bd173-0992-41b7-b1eb-112db904d947/episodes/8c547c4f-f0e8-49c3-91eb-0baa14860c3f/embed" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Shake Shack’s founding story</a> as told by Danny on the show in 2020.</p><p><br /></p><p>This episode was produced by Chris Maccini with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Jimmy Keeley.</p><p><br /></p><p>You can follow HIBT on <a href="https://x.com/HowIBuiltThis" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">X</a> &amp; <a href="https://www.instagram.com/howibuiltthis/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a> and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at <a href="http://guyraz.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">guyraz.com</a> and on <a href="https://guyraz.substack.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Substack</a>.</p><p>See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.</p>

Key Insights

  • Meyer argues that culture should be defined by specific expected behaviors that employees understand they are responsible for emanating, rather than abstract family values, because the latter creates grief when accountability requires someone's departure.
  • Meyer contends that genuine hospitality in customer-facing businesses is visibly demonstrated when staff members are both focused on executing their job well and enjoying each other's company, creating an energy that becomes an ingredient in the customer experience.
  • Meyer claims that maintaining a 'day one mentality' at established restaurants—imagining perfect pride in small details as if on opening day—keeps restaurants fresh and improving decades into operation.
  • Meyer asserts that for packaged consumer goods, the physical package itself must serve as the brand ambassador and bartender, using playful messaging and personalization to convey the brand's story when the founder cannot be present.
  • Raz argues that before pursuing direct-to-consumer shipping for perishable products, founders should prioritize consolidating existing retail relationships and validate that customers will make repeat purchases rather than treating DTC as an expensive one-time sales channel.
  • Meyer suggests that entering food service at major chains requires supply chain certainty and quality assurance infrastructure that young companies may lack, making it preferable to start with smaller establishments already using the product category.
  • Meyer claims that the foundation of hospitality is hope, and that businesses in the hospitality sector can serve as an antidote to pessimism and fear by managing through inevitable downturns with confidence in recovery.
  • Raz observes that successful early-stage brands like Impossible Meat benefit from initial endorsement by recognized chefs and culinary leaders before attempting mass retail distribution, creating proof points and buzz.

Topics

Building authentic brand culture and hospitalityScaling direct-to-consumer businessesEntering retail and food service marketsLeadership transition and organizational structureExpected behaviors vs. family values in company cultureProduct-market fit and demand validationBrand personification and consumer connectionManaging growth while maintaining quality standards

Transcript

This episode is brought to you by JustWorks, one platform that handles the complicated stuff, payroll, benefits, global hiring, and makes running a small business 1 million percent smoother. Stick around. I'll tell you more later in the show. Building a business means being 10 people at once, the strategist, the spreadsheet person, the one fixing the office sink. U.S. Bank made a card for exactly that kind of hustle. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions apply. Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your…

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