Advice Line with Michelle Wahler of Beyond Yoga
Michelle Whaler, co-founder of Beyond Yoga, joins Guy Raz to provide business advice to three entrepreneurs: Carrie Angoff (study abroad for adults), Grace Ref (custom upholstery), and Angel Raymer (artisanal soap with gemstones). The episode emphasizes storytelling, managing customer expectations, and building trust through authentic communication.
Summary
This episode of the Advice Line features Michelle Whaler, former CEO of Beyond Yoga (acquired by Levi's for $400 million in 2021), discussing her post-exit life and providing mentorship to entrepreneurs. Whaler shares that she now invests through her platform Quince Hill, teaches at USC, and finds fulfillment in connecting founders with resources and people they need.
The first caller, Carrie Angoff of Elective Study Abroad, describes offering week-long immersive educational experiences for adults in destinations like Spain and Istanbul. Despite strong initial interest and email engagement, she struggles converting inquiries into actual bookings. Whaler and Raz advise her to: sell the cohort experience rather than just the course content, include testimonials from nervous participants who had transformative experiences, and partner with independent living communities and retirement publications to drive group bookings. They suggest pre-qualifying prospects with questions about commitment level and investment willingness before booking calls, and enhancing website imagery to showcase destination-specific elements.
Grace Ref runs Grace Upholstery in Nashville, operating solo as a side hustle while maintaining full-time employment and raising a young family, earning $50,000 annually. She burned relationships early when overwhelmed by demand due to poor communication and missed timelines, and now wants to know if she can rebuild those designer relationships as she scales. Whaler advises owning past mistakes briefly but focusing on current capabilities, practicing under-promise and over-deliver, and starting with small accounts to rebuild trust before approaching larger ones. Raz emphasizes the "second first impression" concept and suggests adding value through surprise-and-delight gestures, while Whaler recommends padding project timelines significantly to create opportunities for early delivery.
Angel Raymer of Sacred Paws Soap Company makes self-care kits featuring handmade soaps with embedded gemstones, each paired with affirmations tied to emotional properties (rose quartz for love, amethyst for calm). Operating since December 2025 with five kids and a full-time factory job, she successfully sells at monthly vendor markets but struggles with online conversions. Whaler and Raz identify the gap as a failure to translate the in-person emotional selling experience to digital channels. They recommend: emphasizing the ritual and emotional journey rather than just product features, clearly labeling products by gemstone type and emotion without requiring clicks, telling her origin story prominently on the website, and highlighting ingredient quality and trustworthiness. Whaler notes the product has significant potential for retail expansion (Whole Foods, Anthropologie) and gifting markets.
Throughout the episode, Whaler emphasizes a piece of advice she received from her co-founder husband Jesse: maintain relentless focus on core offerings and resist pursuing every new opportunity until the original mission is perfected. She argues that choosing what to say no to is more important than what to say yes to.
About this episode
<p>Today's callers: Carrie from Paris wants to turn interest into bookings for her boutique study-abroad programs for adults. Then, Grace from Nashville considers how to re-build relationships with interior designers she may have let down early on in her furniture upholstery business. And Angel from Indiana explores how to translate the emotional appeal of her self-care soap kits into stronger online sales.</p><p>Plus, Michelle explains why founders don't always need to raise outside capital, and why they <em>shouldn’t </em>go into business with an exit plan. </p><p>Thank you to the founders of Elective Study Abroad, Grace Ann Upholstery, and Sacred Pause Soap Company for being part of our show. </p><p>If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode—where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders—leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298. </p><p>And be sure to listen to <a href="https://art19.com/shows/831bd173-0992-41b7-b1eb-112db904d947/episodes/1d314c06-951a-41a9-a3f2-754fac345268/embed" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beyond Yoga’s founding story</a> as told by Michelle in 2025.</p><p>This episode was produced by Carla Esteves with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Annlie Huang. </p><p>You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy’s free newsletter at guyraz.com or on Substack.</p><p>See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.</p>
Key Insights
- Michelle Whaler argues that raising venture capital is often unnecessary and changes a company's trajectory by making the exit the focus rather than the mission, and she advocates for building sustainable businesses on your own terms.
- Whaler observed that many founders come to her with exit plans before they've even figured out what business they're actually building.
- Grace Ref demonstrated that burning early customer relationships through missed timelines damages not just the direct customer but also their downstream clients, since designers must communicate those delays to their own customers.
- Raz identified that study abroad for adults is failing online because the product is fundamentally an experience and emotional transformation that requires in-person selling to fully convey.
- Whaler noted that successful scaling depends on streamlining operations and delivery before attempting to rebuild damaged relationships, as a second failure would permanently destroy trust.
- Angel Raymer's case illustrated that product websites often fail at emotional selling because they list features transactionally (with clicks required per item) rather than creating a cohesive narrative journey.
- Whaler emphasized that partnership opportunities exist with communities and institutions (independent living communities, retirement publications) that directly reach ideal customers and can drive group bookings simultaneously.
- Raz argued that the most effective timeline strategy is significant padding followed by surprise-early delivery, which creates two wins: either the project is genuinely early, or hidden delays still meet the padded deadline.
Topics
Transcript
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