Flock CEO Garrett Langley on Controversy, "Surveillance State" Claims, and Privacy vs Safety
Garrett Langley, CEO of Flock Safety, discusses the company's license plate reading cameras and drones used by police departments to solve crimes while addressing privacy concerns and accusations of creating a surveillance state. The conversation explores the balance between public safety and privacy rights, including Flock's evolving safeguards against police abuse and community governance of data retention policies.
Summary
Jason Calacanis interviews Flock Safety CEO Garrett Langley about the controversial automated license plate reader (ALPR) and drone technology that has both dramatically increased crime-solving capacity and sparked significant privacy concerns. Langley explains that Flock has helped solve over 1 million crimes and locate over 10,000 missing people while operating in roughly 6,000 cities across the US.
The interview addresses the core tension: how to balance safety and privacy. Langley emphasizes that retention periods (how long data is stored) are set by local city councils through democratic processes, not by Flock. The company recently shifted its default data retention from 30 days to 7 days, with Langley citing data showing 90% of crimes are solved within that window. However, the remaining 10% of cases—often the most serious crimes like homicides and sexual assaults—may require longer retention periods.
A significant portion of the conversation focuses on police abuse prevention. Langley discusses the company's newly developed "Auto Assistance" tool, launched four months prior, which uses machine learning to detect abnormal search patterns that indicate potential stalking or misuse by officers. He reveals they've caught numerous instances of abuse, including in Georgia where nine officers were fired for system abuse. This tool is now a mandatory feature, not optional.
Langley addresses criticism that Flock enables a "surveillance state" by clarifying what the technology does and doesn't do: it reads license plates from still images, detects vehicle features like roof racks or damage, but does NOT perform facial recognition, capture video, or look inside vehicles. He notes competitors have more invasive capabilities, making Flock comparatively privacy-protective despite its market leadership.
The discussion covers the company's public relations challenges from the past year, including vandalism of cameras (which Langley characterizes as felonies being perpetuated by people incited on social media), loss of approximately 60-70 cities out of 6,000 due to privacy concerns, and high-profile criticism from figures like Tucker Carlson. Langley acknowledges communication failures and commits to better explaining what the technology does versus misconceptions about its capabilities.
A critical insight emerges around equity and privilege: those with resources (gated communities, private security, home cameras) can afford privacy, while lower-income communities most affected by crime are most supportive of public safety technology. This reflects historical patterns with stop-and-frisk and other enforcement tools that disproportionately affect those without alternative safety mechanisms.
The interview explores potential AI applications with caution. Langley discusses AI uses like identifying abnormal vehicle behavior patterns but emphasizes the company's commitment to keeping humans in the loop for consequential decisions. He also explains the drone component: drones dock on buildings and deploy when 911 calls come in, providing rapid on-scene assessment to de-escalate situations without immediately sending armed officers.
Calacanis and Langley discuss the importance of third-party auditing, transparency portals showing audit logs and flight patterns, and the role of elected officials in overseeing these systems. They also cover varying state regulations, from New Hampshire's 3-minute retention to Washington's 21-day standard, highlighting the patchwork nature of current oversight.
The conversation concludes with agreement that communities should have democratic control over these technologies while acknowledging the legitimate safety benefits demonstrated across multiple jurisdictions.
About this episode
<p dir="ltr">(0:00) The most controversial company in privacy right now, Flock CEO joins the show!</p> <p dir="ltr">(7:23) License plate data retention: 7 days solves 90% of crimes</p> <p dir="ltr">(13:00) Camera vandalism, felony charges, and privacy concerns</p> <p dir="ltr">(18:15) Dirty cops exposed: Flock's audit tool got 9 Georgia officers fired</p> <p dir="ltr">(28:25) AI, drones, facial recognition, and avoiding predictive policing</p> <p dir="ltr">(39:43) Safety is a privilege and who actually needs Flock</p> <p dir="ltr">(45:36) Flock's PR crisis: internal morale, churn, and 20 cities turning the cameras back on</p> <p dir="ltr"> </p> <p dir="ltr">Thanks to our partners for making this possible!</p> <p><strong> </strong>AppLovin Ads is AppLovin's AI advertising platform reaching over a billion daily active users across mobile games. Full-screen video ads with a 35-second median watch time. Advertisers are profitably spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a day. AppLovin Ads is now open to all advertisers. Sign up at <a href="http://applovin.com/ALLIN">http://applovin.com/ALLIN</a> </p> <p dir="ltr">Numeral is the trusted solution for U.S. sales tax, VAT, and GST, used by 3,000+ businesses globally. They handle registrations, filings, and tax rates, so you can stay ahead of risk. Learn more at <a href="https://www.numeral.com/?utm_source=all-in">https://www.numeral.com/?utm_source=all-in</a></p> <p dir="ltr"> </p> <p dir="ltr">Follow Garrett:</p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://x.com/glangley">https://x.com/glangley</a> <strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr"> </p> <p dir="ltr">Follow the besties: </p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://x.com/chamath">https://x.com/chamath</a> </p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://x.com/Jason">https://x.com/Jason</a> </p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://x.com/DavidSacks">https://x.com/DavidSacks</a> </p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://x.com/friedberg">https://x.com/friedberg</a> </p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">Follow on X:</p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://x.com/theallinpod">https://x.com/theallinpod</a> </p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">Follow on Instagram:</p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod">https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod</a> </p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">Follow on TikTok:</p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@allin">https://www.tiktok.com/@allin</a> </p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">Follow on LinkedIn: </p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod">https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod</a> </p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">Intro Music Credit:</p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://rb.gy/tppkzl">https://rb.gy/tppkzl</a> </p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://x.com/yung_spielburg">https://x.com/yung_spielburg</a> </p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">Intro Video Credit:</p> <p dir="ltr"><a href="https://x.com/TheZachEffect">https://x.com/TheZachEffect</a> </p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">#allin #tech #news</p> <p> </p>
Key Insights
- Langley claims Flock's analysis shows 90% of crimes are solved within 7 days of data retention, with the remaining 10% being the most serious cases (homicides, sexual assaults) that may justify longer retention periods.
- The company developed an automated abuse detection tool called Auto Assistance that identifies abnormal search patterns indicating potential officer stalking, leading to the firing of multiple officers including nine in Georgia alone.
- Langley argues that Flock does not perform facial recognition or capture video unlike competitors, positioning the company as more privacy-protective despite being the market leader, which he hopes will force competitors to follow suit.
- Langley contends that communities most affected by crime and most supportive of the technology are lower-income areas, while privacy advocates opposing it often come from gated communities or high-security neighborhoods with private safety alternatives.
- The company requires city councils to make active decisions about data retention through public meetings and vote records, with Langley stating he believes democratically elected officials—not the technology provider—should determine how long data is stored.
- Langley acknowledges that roughly 60-70 cities out of 6,000 have removed or not renewed Flock cameras, primarily due to misinformation about the company's capabilities, such as false beliefs about facial recognition features.
- The company has mandatory audit logs and transparency portals showing all system access, drone flights, and searches, though Langley notes that in large departments with thousands of officers making multiple searches daily, manual auditing of logs is insufficient without automated abuse detection.
- Langley states the company intentionally moves slowly on AI features and requires third-party attestation before deployment to avoid enabling speculative crime prediction or defining suspicion, keeping humans in the loop for consequential decisions.
Topics
Transcript
All right, everybody, welcome back to the all in interview. This is where we find the people building the future, sometimes a politician, sometimes a CEO, sometimes an investor, all the time, an important discussion. And one of the most important discussions of the moment is balancing safety and privacy. And there is one company that has, you know, is at the center of this. And we're so lucky to have Garrett from Flock here, Garrett Langley. Garrett, you and I spoke on This Week in Startups, my other podcast that I've been doing for 16 years. I don't know how many years ago that was, six or seven years ago. Six or seven years, yeah. And I've been following…
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