Playing God or Saving Nature? Gene Editing, Artificial Wombs & the Return of Extinct Species | Ben Lamm PT 2
Ben Lamm discusses Colossal's work in de-extinction and synthetic biology, covering parallel pathway development for woolly mammoths and dire wolves, the role of P53 in cancer prevention, AI's potential to revolutionize biology within 5-10 years, and applications beyond conservation including longevity science and plastic degradation.
Summary
Ben Lamm, founder of Colossal, discusses the complex science behind resurrecting extinct species and engineering biology. He explains how Colossal employs parallel pathway development—simultaneously conducting computational analysis, cell line growth, genetic editing, and IVF research—to accelerate what would otherwise take a decade per animal down to a more manageable timeline. This approach requires substantial infrastructure: four labs, 172 scientists, 17 academic partners, 40 funded postdocs, and 95 scientific advisors, supported by approximately half a billion dollars in capital.
Lamm details the technical challenges, particularly around P53 gene regulation during editing. Elephants and blue whales naturally express P53 at 20 times higher levels than humans, which suppresses cancer development. When making genetic edits that appear as mutations to cellular machinery, they must temporarily downregulate P53 to allow editing, then reactivate it—a complex reversal of immortalization constructs used in cell biology.
On the dire wolf project specifically, Lamm addresses misconceptions stemming from a 2021-2022 paper that used only 0.15x genome coverage (15% complete) and concluded dire wolves fell somewhere between wolves and jackals. Colossal obtained 500 times more data from two samples with 60,000 years of genetic divergence between them, reconstructing a phylogenetic tree showing dire wolves were closer to gray wolves. They made 14 genes with 20 total edits, using gray wolves (99.5% genetically identical) as donors. The resulting animals display phenotypes matching fossil records: 20-25% larger size, stronger bite force, stockier builds, white coats, and unexpectedly thick hair with ridge-like manes—characteristics unknown from fossils alone.
Lamm explains that AI and big data will transform biology similarly to how it revolutionized language models. Within 5-10 years, AI trained on genome data could match current large language model capabilities. Colossal has built internal software using their extensive editing data to predict optimal editing modalities and efficiency rates based on design parameters.
Regarding longevity escape velocity (one year of life gained per year lived), Lamm believes this is achievable within 20 years through combinations of existing and emerging therapeutics. Current tools already address major death causes: Repatha reduces LDL cholesterol to reverse arterial plaque; metformin controls diabetes; GLP-1 receptor agonists show benefits beyond weight loss including kidney, muscle, and heart function improvements. He predicts a future single longevity shot combining multiple therapeutics to maintain Brian Johnson-level biomarkers.
Lamm addresses why de-extinction matters beyond spectacle: it drives innovation through systems thinking (like the Apollo program), generates technologies applicable to human healthcare, and inspires youth toward science careers. Teachers report classrooms fixate on dire wolves and mammoths.
On ecosystem considerations, Lamm notes that rewilding involves measured introduction through 2,000-acre preserved preserves with 24/7 monitoring, 10 full-time staff, security, and on-site veterinary facilities. For the dire wolf project, surrogate dog mothers are adopted through anonymous programs to prevent exploitation as spectacle.
Colossal's parallel innovations include plastic degradation through engineered enzymes from naturally occurring microbes discovered by the Wyss Institute. These enzymes break chemical bonds in plastics, reducing degradation time from 800 years to approximately 18 months, with goals of 24 hours. Fourteen to sixteen pilot projects are underway with water treatment and textile companies.
Lamm's broader vision includes engineering plants to grow as architectural structures with bioluminescent properties and developing underwater cities by applying radiation-tolerance and thermal-regulation technologies developed for space to oceanic environments 30-70 feet deep where conditions remain stable regardless of surface disruption.
About this episode
<p>Welcome back to the second half of this eye-opening discussion with Ben Lamm, CEO of Colossal Biosciences. In Part 2, Tom and Ben dig even deeper, tackling the massive ethical questions and transformative possibilities that arise when humans hold the keys to edit and design life itself. Whether it’s confronting the future of embryo screening, germline editing, the potential for designer babies, or the international arms race in biotechnology—no topic is off limits.</p> <p><br /></p> <p>Ben shares insider stories on Colossal’s dire wolf project, explains misconceptions about cloning, and reveals the unexpected hurdles and breakthroughs in the world of synthetic biology. They discuss how these advances can directly impact human longevity, environmental crises like plastic pollution, and even set the stage for building the living cities and ocean habitats of tomorrow. This is a no-holds-barred, jam-packed episode for anyone intrigued by the future of engineering life—and the urgent questions we all must face as the bio-revolution unfolds.</p> <p><br /></p> <p><strong>SHOWNOTES</strong> </p> <p>33:30 – The Moral and Ethical Responsibility of ‘Playing God’ </p> <p>34:58 – Human Genome Editing, Embryo Selection, and the Coming Revolution in IVF </p> <p>39:14 – The Personal Side: Ben’s Own IVF Journey and Making Hard Choices </p> <p>44:41 – The Slippery Slope: Intelligence, Disease, and Future Human Potential </p> <p>51:36 – International Competition: US vs. China in Biotech and Human Enhancement </p> <p>58:46 – Accelerating Gene Editing: Multiplexing, Cloning, and Animal Selection </p> <p>1:09:12 – Rewilding and Ecosystem Impact: Fact vs. Jurassic Park Fiction </p> <p>1:22:42 – The Longevity Escape Velocity and Radical Life Extension </p> <p>1:44:08 – Innovations for the Planet: Enzymes That Break Down Plastic & Ocean Engineering </p> <p>1:49:40 – The Future of Synthetic Biology: Designed Environments, Health, and Next-Gen Conservation</p> <p><br /></p> <p><strong>FOLLOW BEN LAMM</strong> </p> <p>Twitter/X: <a href="https://twitter.com/federallamm" target="_blank">@federallamm</a> </p> <p>LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/benlamm/" target="_blank">Ben Lamm</a></p> <p><br /></p> <p><strong>CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS</strong></p> <p><strong>ButcherBox: </strong>Ready to level up your meals? Go to <a href="https://butcherbox.com/impact" target="_blank"><u>https://ButcherBox.com/impact</u></a> to get $20 off your first box <em>and</em> FREE bacon for life with the Bilyeu Box!</p> <p><strong>Vital Proteins:</strong> Get 20% off by going to <a href="https://www.vitalproteins.com" target="_blank"><u>https://www.vitalproteins.com</u></a> and entering promo code IMPACT at check out</p> <p><strong>Shopify</strong>: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at <a href="https://shopify.com/impact" target="_blank"><u>https://shopify.com/impact</u></a></p> <p><strong>Netsuite:</strong> Download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at <a href="https://netsuite.com/THEORY" target="_blank"><u>https://NetSuite.com/THEORY</u></a></p> <p><strong>iTrust Capital:</strong> Use code IMPACTGO when you sign up and fund your account to get a $100 bonus at <a href="https://www.itrustcapital.com/tombilyeu" target="_blank"><u>https://www.itrustcapital.com/tombilyeu</u></a> </p> <p><strong>Mint Mobile:</strong> If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at <a href="https://mintmobile.com/impact" target="_blank"><u>https://mintmobile.com/impact.</u></a> </p> <p><strong>DISCLAIMER:</strong> <em>Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month 5 gigabyte plan required (equivalent to $15/mo.). New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full-price plan options available. Taxes & fees extra. </em><strong>See MINT MOBILE for details</strong>.</p> <p><br /></p> <p><strong>What's up, everybody?</strong> <strong>It's Tom Bilyeu here:</strong></p> <p>If you want my help...</p> <ul> <li> <p>STARTING a business:<a href="https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show" target="_blank"> <u>join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER</u></a></p> </li> <li> <p>SCALING a business:<a href="https://tombilyeu.com/call" target="_blank"><strong> </strong><u>see if you qualify here.</u></a></p> </li> </ul> <p>Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:<a href="https://tombilyeu.com/" target="_blank"><strong> </strong><u>sign up here.</u></a></p> <p>**********************************************************************</p> <p><strong>If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,</strong><a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf" target="_blank"><u> </u><strong>Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook</strong></a> —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you.</p> <p>**********************************************************************</p> <p><strong>LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS</strong>:<a href="http://apple.co/impacttheory" target="_blank"><u> apple.co/impacttheory</u></a></p> <p>**********************************************************************</p> <p><strong>FOLLOW TOM:</strong></p> <p><strong>Instagram:</strong><a href="https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/" target="_blank"><strong> </strong><u>https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/</u></a></p> <p><strong>Tik Tok:</strong><a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en" target="_blank"><strong> </strong><u>https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en</u></a></p> <p><strong>Twitter:</strong><a href="https://twitter.com/tombilyeu" target="_blank"><strong> </strong><u>https://twitter.com/tombilyeu</u></a></p> <p><strong>YouTube:</strong><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu" target="_blank"><strong> </strong><u>https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu</u></a></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices" target="_blank">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p><p>See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.</p>
Key Insights
- Colossal uses parallel pathway development where computational analysis, cell line growth, genetic editing, and IVF research happen simultaneously, making multi-year projects feasible rather than requiring a decade per animal.
- Elephants and blue whales express P53 at 20 times higher levels than humans, which explains their dramatically lower cancer rates despite larger body mass and longer lifespans—a phenomenon called Peto's paradox.
- During genetic editing, the process itself appears as a forced mutation that can trigger cancer responses, requiring researchers to temporarily downregulate P53 during edits and then reactivate it afterward.
- A 2021-2022 paper claiming dire wolves fell between wolves and jackals was based on only 15% genome coverage, while Colossal's 500x more data from two samples with 60,000 years of divergence reveals dire wolves skewed closer to gray wolf lineage.
- Dire wolves made by Colossal display unexpected phenotypes including white coats and thick hair with ridge-like manes that were completely unknown from fossil records alone.
- Within 5-10 years, AI trained on genome data could achieve capabilities comparable to current large language models, enabling prediction of optimal gene editing approaches and efficiency rates.
- Longevity escape velocity appears achievable within 20 years through combinations of existing therapeutics: statins reducing LDL cholesterol, metformin for diabetes, and GLP-1 agonists showing benefits beyond weight loss.
- De-extinction serves purposes beyond spectacle by driving systems-level technological innovation, generating spillover applications to human healthcare, and inspiring youth toward science careers—similar to the Apollo program's broader cultural impact.
Topics
Transcript
Best thing that's ever happened to you financially. Go. Easy. Sold my car on Carvana. Amazing offer. Really? I hit 200 on a scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check? No. How many scratchers did you hit to get that? I hit a button on Carvana.com once. Okay, that's fair. It's like the lottery, except you always win. Not like the lottery at all, actually. Exactly. Inexplicably good. Offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. I'm Tom Bilyeu, and this is Impact Theory. Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Ben Lamb. Let's dive right back in. As you look at what is going to…
Full transcript available for MurmurCast members
Sign Up to AccessMore from Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory
America at 250: Socialism, Economic Reality, and the Truth About AI and Power
Tom Bilyeu's America 250th birthday special covers the DSA's infiltration strategy within the Democratic Party, the failure of Robert Owen's 1825 socialist commune experiment, economic policy critiques, AI industry concerns about data protection, and UK police overreach threatening civil liberties.
Billionaire Investor Says US Market Is Headed For A HUGE CRASH! | Tom Bilyeu Reacts
Jeremy Grantham, a legendary investor with 60 years of experience managing up to $165 billion, warns that the US stock market is in the biggest investment bubble in American history, driven by AI euphoria and detached from fundamentals. He advises avoiding US stocks, diversifying into foreign markets, bonds, and cash, and preparing for a potential 70% market decline similar to past bubbles.
Supreme Court Rulings, Birthright Citizenship, and the Impact of AI on America’s Future
Tom Bilyeu discusses three major Supreme Court rulings on transgender athletes in sports, money in politics, and birthright citizenship, along with analysis of Chinese AI threats, DSA political gains, New York City budget policies, and the Charlie Kirk assassination case. The episode explores how these policy decisions affect economic prosperity, immigration, and national security.
The Fed Just Changed How They Measure Inflation — Right Before The Election. Not A Coincidence
The speaker argues that the U.S. government faces an unsustainable $39 trillion debt that can only be resolved through inflation rather than growth or spending cuts. He claims Federal Reserve Chair Kevin Warsh and President Trump are coordinating a strategy to hide currency debasement through manipulated inflation metrics, forced Treasury purchases by banks and stablecoins, and yield curve control to gradually siphon purchasing power from dollar holders.
Why Negotiating Through Violence Fails: Middle East, Ukraine, and the Collapse of the Freedom of Seas
Tom Bilyeu discusses escalating geopolitical tensions in Iran, Ukraine, and Europe, arguing that negotiating through violence is ineffective without sufficient military intervention to change adversaries' calculations. He critiques California's billionaire wealth tax as resentment-driven policy that will backfire economically, and condemns Europe's heat wave response for restricting AC instead of innovating.