How Powerful Men Speak—And the Secret to Gaining Influence That Lasts | T. D. Jakes (Fan Fav)
Bishop T.D. Jakes joins Tom Bilyeu to discuss his book 'Don't Drop the Mic,' exploring the transformative power of communication, the critical importance of listening over talking, and how finding and using one's platform can change the world. Jakes draws on his upbringing in West Virginia, decades of pastoral counseling, and his multifaceted career to argue that authentic cross-cultural communication is essential for personal, professional, and societal survival.
Summary
The conversation opens with T.D. Jakes reflecting on the origin of his fascination with the power of a microphone — watching his father gaze admiringly at Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. on television as a child. Jakes argues that more world change has been achieved through the wielded microphone than through the gun, and that anyone with a platform — whether a pulpit, a boardroom, or a dinner table — holds the power to transform reality.
Jakes and Bilyeu explore the growing crisis of communication in modern society, where technological silos allow people to consume only news and perspectives that confirm their existing beliefs. Jakes argues this tribalism is making society more 'animalistic,' and that genuine cross-pollination between different people, cultures, and ideas is necessary for both personal growth and collective survival. He uses the metaphor of nature — no fruit is born without cross-pollination — to illustrate how human potential is stunted when people remain in ideological bubbles.
A central theme is the distinction between talking and listening. Jakes contends that every great orator is first a great listener, and that modern discourse has devolved into people merely pausing to formulate their next attack rather than truly hearing one another. He argues that the inability to listen costs people their jobs, marriages, and relationships with their children. He draws on decades of pastoral counseling to show that many divorces and broken relationships stem not from lack of love but from fundamental failures of communication and translation.
Jakes introduces the concept of being 'bilingual' — not in the literal sense, but in learning to speak in the language that the hearer understands. He recounts an episode where a man attacked him on Instagram with profanity, and how reframing that outburst as a cry for help rather than an attack changed his entire response. He extends this to broader societal conversations, urging people not to drop the mic even when faced with backlash or discomfort.
The discussion touches on the challenge of leaving one's 'tribe' in pursuit of growth. Jakes acknowledges that becoming educated or exposed can lead to ostracism from one's original community, and he argues that this courage — to risk losing tribal citizenship in order to grow — is essential. He applies this to underserved communities, noting that intelligence has not been marketed as 'cool,' and that lack of access to capital and broader experience, not lack of intelligence, is what traps many inner-city youth.
Jakes emphasizes that people should not allow others to define or limit them with labels. He cites his own career — spanning pastoral work, films grossing $500 million, 40 books, real estate ventures, and advising heads of state — as evidence that a person is more than any single descriptor. He urges listeners to do everything they are gifted to do, even when scared, because stepping outside one's comfort zone is when the brain and body are most alive.
The conversation explores the metaphor of God making trees, not tables — meaning raw potential is given, but the work of shaping it into something useful is a human responsibility. Jakes argues that running from this process eliminates the promise, and that it is the person who does the shaping who gains the most from it. He ties this to the urgency of time, warning younger generations that time passes faster than they realize and that this moment — not some future rehearsal — is their recital.
Jakes reflects on his father's work ethic and dying slowly from illness, arguing that watching his father continue to produce despite illness instilled in him an extraordinary commitment to productivity and legacy. He argues that work ceases to feel like work when you love it, and that human beings are fundamentally made to be productive and creative. He closes by defining his legacy not as his accomplishments but as the people he has influenced — arguing that legacy lives in those who heard, read, and were changed by his work, and who then pass that on to others.
About this episode
<p>This is a fan fav episode. Nearly everyone has a platform of some kind. Maybe your platform is on social media, or it’s home with your immediate family and close circle of friends. Regardless, what you say out of your mouth to the people around your platform matters. In this episode, Tom is joined by the legendary T.D. Jakes, who shares the incredible value of what we say to communicate and even more importantly, how we listen. T.D. Jakes break down the depth of becoming a better listener and the importance and urgency of being creative, innovative and finding mastery to strive for something greater in your entrepreneurial life and in your personal life. Order the new book from T.D. Jakes, Don’t Drop the Mic: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Drop-Mic-Study-Guide/dp/154602946X/ref</p> <p><br /></p> <p>Original air date: 4-20-2021</p> <p><br /></p> <p><strong>SHOW NOTES: </strong></p> <p>Power Mic | T.D. Jakes shares how he discovered the power of a platform and audience [1:46]</p> <p>Get it Out | Coming out of your bubble for a new experience ready to talk, listen and learn [6:37] </p> <p>Listen Better | T.D. Jakes explains how listening leads to understanding and less hate [10:49] </p> <p>New World | Why mentoring each other is necessary to get others out of their subculture [15:47] P</p> <p>otential | Break past limiting beliefs and expectations of others to explore possibilities [21:58] </p> <p>Intention | T.D. Jakes explains what’s intended versus what’s understood, being bilingual [29:15] </p> <p>Understand | To better understand, just listen, don’t run away, don’t try to fix the person [33:08] </p> <p>Seasons | Reality of not holding onto past labels and experiencing new stages of life [38:15] </p> <p>Action | T.D. Jakes breaks down how life requires a process to create and innovate [42:36] </p> <p>Urgency | T.D. Jakes reveals the urgency action in the ‘now’ and relationship value [46:45] </p> <p>Survive Strong | T.D. Jakes on what’s left after the trauma is always enough to rebuild [51:39] </p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices" target="_blank">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p><p>See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.</p>
Key Insights
- Jakes argues that more world change has historically been achieved through the wielded microphone — oratory and communication — than through the gun, citing figures like MLK, Gandhi, and Mandela.
- Jakes contends that modern society has lost not its ability to speak but its ability to listen, with most people merely pausing to formulate their next attack rather than genuinely hearing what is being said.
- Jakes claims that the only thing preventing many inner-city youth from reaching their potential is not lack of intelligence or entrepreneurial instinct, but lack of access to capital and exposure to a broader world — not lack of raw ability.
- Jakes argues that the difference between what a speaker intends to say and what the listener actually hears is so vast that asking a trusted person 'what did you hear?' after speaking would shock most communicators.
- Jakes asserts that a man who cursing him out on Instagram was not attacking him personally but attacking being stuck in his own circumstances — reframing hostility as a cry for help and arguing this reframe is essential to real listening.
- Jakes claims that becoming exposed to broader perspectives often leads to ejection from one's original tribe, because unexposed people are intimidated by those who are exposed — and argues this cost is worth paying.
- Jakes argues that people should resist letting others define them with labels and put a period where there should be a comma, noting that being described only as a pastor caused people to miss that he was also a filmmaker, author, and entrepreneur.
- Jakes argues that the process of shaping raw potential — his metaphor of turning trees into tables — benefits the builder most, because it reveals capacities they didn't know they had and builds confidence for future creation.
- Jakes contends that the currency of human relationships is more valuable than money, arguing that a person with no money but rich relationships lacks nothing, while a person with money but no relationships is truly poor.
- Jakes argues that one's future is never determined by what was lost but by what remains, and that spending time cataloging losses prevents people from building with what they still have.
- Jakes claims that the current media ecosystem — with 24-hour news cycles and algorithmic content that mirrors back a person's existing beliefs — creates a false sense of consensus and makes genuine communication across differences increasingly rare and courageous.
- Jakes argues that legacy is not built in monuments or accomplishments but in the people who were changed by one's work and who then pass that change forward — describing his legacy as living inside those who heard him and were moved to act.
Topics
Transcript
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