Lee Sung Jin On The Spirituality Of Netflix’s ‘Beef’
Lee Sung-jin, creator of Netflix's Beef, discusses his journey from personal mental health struggles to creating acclaimed television that explores identity, spirituality, and generational divides. He shares insights on storytelling structure, the creative process, mentorship, and his upcoming X-Men project while reflecting on themes of samsara, attachment, and the universal patterns that bind human experience.
Summary
Lee Sung-jin traces his creative journey from his childhood moving between Korea and the United States, experiencing cultural displacement and emotional unsafety despite loving parents. He describes suffering from depression starting in sixth grade and later attempting suicide in 2013, which he characterizes as a pivotal moment that forced him to examine his life with intentionality. He discusses how his early career involved mimicking other writers' styles, particularly in comedy, which led to mental health deterioration until the crisis point allowed him to pursue authenticity.
Regarding Beef's creation and success, Sung-jin explains that specificity in storytelling paradoxically creates universality—the more specific the experience, the more people recognize themselves in it. He discusses the show's spiritual framework around Jungian shadow work and samsara, suggesting that the cycle of suffering and rebirth is designed to teach lessons that require multiple iterations. He notes that viewers of different generations interpret the finale differently based on their life stage, and that this openness is intentional.
On the craft of television, Sung-jin describes his approach to maintaining tone across large collaborative teams using formulas: Season One used 'someone plus 35% Netflix bingeability/White Lotus propulsion, plus 30% Bergman/Koreeda melancholic pathos.' He emphasizes that intention must be crystal clear in every creative decision, from shot composition to dialogue, because audiences unconsciously sense muddied or unclear intention. He compares narrative structure to music theory, noting that Western storytelling relies on rise-fall-rise patterns (similar to G-Em-C-D chord progressions) that audiences are neurologically attuned to.
Sung-jin discusses generational differences, particularly between Millennials and Gen Z. He observes that Millennials use social media for external validation and presentation, while Gen Z is more transactional—using platforms instrumentally to achieve specific goals like income rather than seeking likes. He notes that Gen Z gravitates toward 90s culture (the last analog era) and has access to an eclectic canon of art without gatekeeping, allowing them to choose authentically rather than following what radio stations dictate.
On his career trajectory, Sung-jin recounts his path from the NBC Page Program through unemployment in New York, eventually landing his first writing job on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia through a script that caught the right person's attention. He describes learning that tone and collaborative intention are fundamental to successful television. He acknowledges past failures to stand up against offensive stereotyping in writers' rooms when he was younger, attributing this to fear of job loss and seeking external validation, contrasting this with younger writers today who assert themselves more confidently.
Regarding Asian American representation in media, Sung-jin advises younger creators not to lead solely with identity but to also develop craft—understanding structure, character, and what makes work entertaining. He notes the pendulum swing where previous generations couldn't express identity, so younger creators sometimes over-correct by leading with identity without adequate narrative structure. He used the road rage premise in Beef specifically to ground identity themes in a universally relatable scenario.
On parenting, Sung-jin discusses his desire to protect his daughter's intact essence while recognizing that his own suffering may have been necessary for his artistic development. He wrestles with this paradox in therapy and acknowledges that generational trauma may be inevitable despite best intentions. He also discusses his recent decision to reclaim his Korean name (Lee Sung-jin) instead of the Americanized 'Sonny,' inspired by seeing Korean directors like Bong Joon-ho and Park Chan-wook own their names without apology.
Finally, Sung-jin discusses his upcoming X-Men project with Marvel, emphasizing that working with Kevin Feige has reframed blockbuster filmmaking as play rather than compromise. He notes that Marvel is currently in an evolution phase, filtering out excess and returning to character-first storytelling, which aligns with his approach.
About this episode
Lee Sung Jin is the Emmy-winning writer, director, and showrunner of Beef, and is now co-writing Marvel's X-Men. We discuss his backstory, the Jungian shadow work underneath the show, the specificity with which he constructs these characters and the universality piece that comes out of it, the worst year of his life and the scene it produced, and the name he spent twenty-five years under. The overarching message is that change, evolution, growth are possible and always within our grasp. We just get in our own way. Lee is operating at an entirely different level. Enjoy! Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: LMNT: Get a free 8-count Sample Pack with any purchase👉🏼https://www.drinkLMNT.com/RICHROLL iRestore: Save on customer favorites with code RICHROLL👉🏼https://www.irestore.com/RICHROLL BetterHelp: Get 10% OFF the first month👉🏼https://www.betterhelp.com/richroll Rivian: Electric vehicles that keep the world adventurous forever👉🏼https://stories.rivian.com/richroll Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors👉🏼https://www.richroll.com/sponsors Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors👉🏼https://www.richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at https://www.voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Key Insights
- Lee Sung-jin argues that his suicide attempt in December 2013 was the necessary 'trampoline' that allowed him to rebuild his life with intentionality, examining his motivations as a friend, son, and writer—framing catastrophic suffering as a prerequisite for authentic creative work.
- Sung-jin claims that the more specific a creator gets about their personal experience, the more universal the work becomes, because 'we're all just the same thing experiencing itself,' which is why audiences recognize themselves in highly detailed, culturally specific narratives like Beef.
- He argues that the Western audience's neurological response to story structure mirrors their response to chord progressions (both typically follow rise-fall-rise patterns), suggesting that humans are 'primitive beings' that respond predictably to specific stimuli regardless of content.
- Sung-jin contends that clarity of intention in creative work is paramount because audiences unconsciously detect muddiness or lack of clarity, making the filmmaker's moment-to-moment intentionality (shot composition, camera placement, dialogue) crucial to whether viewers feel manipulation or resonance.
- He observes that Millennials use social media for external validation and presentation of identity, while Gen Z uses it instrumentally for tangible goals like income, representing a fundamental shift in how generations relate to technology and self-image.
- Sung-jin argues that viewers interpret the same ending of Beef season two differently based on their generational position and life stage, and that this interpretive multiplicity is intentional—designed to allow the show to function as a 'mirror' that viewers see themselves in differently over time.
- He claims that the self-help and wellness movement follows the same cycle as any cultural movement: it begins in earnest, then stagnates, then gets colonized by capitalism, requiring constant evolution to remain effective—explaining why people listen to transformation content but don't change.
- Sung-jin argues that younger Asian American creators sometimes over-correct against historical erasure by leading with identity-first narratives without adequate attention to craft (structure, entertainment value, rises and falls), limiting their work's reach.
- He contends that his depression stemmed partly from constantly 'looking around, copying and mimicking' as a Korean American immigrant, never feeling like himself, and that this displacement became the root cause of his mental health struggles rather than any single traumatic event.
- Sung-jin claims that the archetype of anxious-avoidant attachment (Ashley and Austin in Beef) is 'rigged'—each person unconsciously seeks out what they grew up with, making the relationship simultaneously inevitable and tragic, even when both parties understand the dynamic intellectually.
- He argues that working with Kevin Feige at Marvel reframed blockbuster filmmaking from a compromise to play, suggesting that even within corporate structures, leadership that leads with joy and artistic vision can shift the entire tone of massive collaborative efforts.
- Sung-jin contends that Gen X got culturally erased not because of generational failings but because the generation's core sensibility ('whatever,' anti-protest, slacker ethos) meant they 'didn't raise their hands enough' to claim cultural visibility, in contrast to Boomer activism or Millennial self-promotion.
Topics
Transcript
Letting go is actually the thing. Yeah. But we keep forgetting. Lee Sung-jin. Lee Sung-jin, the creator of the hit Netflix show Beef. He has other television products in development with A24, FX, and Lionsgate. You've expanded your aperture and you're tackling much deeper existential questions about what it is to be human. Danny says in season one, you know, rock bottom can be your trampoline, which was, you know, just ripped from the headlines of my life. And I just started re-examining everything, like just intentionality, like what's my intention as a friend, as a son, you know, as a writer. I'm actually sort of glad everything happened the way it did because, you know, what a privilege it…
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