Likeability Expert: Stop Doing This, It’s Why People Quietly Avoid You! | Vanessa Van Edwards
Vanessa Van Edwards, a likeability expert, discusses the science of great conversation and provides a three-level framework for connecting with others. The conversation covers specific questions that generate genuine connection, identifies five narrative archetypes people embody, and explores how to cultivate charisma through conversational mechanics, vocal tone, and body language.
Summary
Vanessa Van Edwards presents extensive research on conversation science developed over 20 years, beginning with her personal struggle as an awkward person. She introduces a three-level conversation framework based on Dr. Dan McAdams' research: Level One (general traits/facts), Level Two (personal concerns/motivations), and Level Three (self-narrative/life story).
For Level One, Van Edwards' speed networking experiments with 500 participants revealed that "What was the highlight of your day?" significantly outperformed traditional openers like "How are you?" and "What do you do?" Other effective Level One questions include "Have anything exciting you're working on?" and "Do you have fun plans coming up?" She emphasizes that facts are "stop signs" while stories are "doorways," and recommends hunting for stories rather than dead-end facts.
Level Two focuses on dream building—uncovering someone's secret desires, worries, and goals. Questions like "What have you always wanted to learn?" and "What is your biggest goal right now?" activate dopamine and growth mindset. Van Edwards stresses that Level Two creates motivation by allowing people to articulate aspirations they've kept private.
Level Three, the deepest level, involves sharing self-narratives. She distinguishes between "contamination narratives" (people feel victimized by circumstances) and "redemption narratives" (people believe they can overcome challenges). The question "Do you feel lucky?" serves as a sneaker that reveals someone's internal locus of control and whether they believe they have agency over their life. She notes that people with redemption narratives live longer, have better immune systems, and report higher happiness.
Van Edwards identifies five narrative archetypes: the Ambitious Hero (driven, never satisfied, prone to burnout), the Contented Pragmatist (satisfied with status quo, values ritual and habit), the Selfless Helper (defines worth through helping others, struggles with boundaries), the Creative Disruptor (breaks rules, challenges norms, can create friction), and the Unlucky Struggler (contamination narrative, often self-deprecating but sometimes funny).
On mechanics, she emphasizes that conversational turns should last 15-30 seconds, with 45 seconds being the maximum before veering into monologue. She discusses the "open fish" nonverbal cue—when someone's mouth opens as if to speak—as a sign they want a turn. She also addresses the problem of over-talking, noting that 95% of people have worked with someone who talks too much, and provides a five-question test to self-assess.
Regarding exiting conversations gracefully, Van Edwards offers the "graceful exit" formula: mention something in the person's future, give a compliment or action, and physically disengage using nonverbal cues like stepping back and angling toward the door.
On charisma and "aura," Van Edwards explains that it comes from clearly signaling liking, signaling competence, and making others feel understood and chosen. She recounts an experience at an exclusive VIP party where she introduced herself as "a recovering awkward person" rather than listing impressive credentials, and found that vulnerability made her the most sought-after person at the event.
Vocal tone significantly impacts charisma. Using the "maximum resonance point"—speaking on the out-breath at the lowest natural range of your voice—signals confidence and relaxation. Speaking too quickly or at higher pitches signals anxiety and tightens vocal cords, making people less inclined to listen.
On eye contact, she clarifies that 60-70% is ideal in Western cultures, not 100%. Full eye contact produces oxytocin but prevents complex thinking. When delivering important points, more eye contact helps you gauge whether the listener believes you.
Listening cues that signal warmth include nodding, head tilts (which expose the ear as a vulnerability signal), leaning in, and lower lid flexing (which indicates intense focus and deep listening). A lower lid flex—hardening the lower lids to see better—is not positive or negative but shows someone is trying to deeply understand.
Van Edwards discusses how conversation has atrophied due to asynchronous communication (voice notes, texts), reduced in-person socialization (only 3 in 10 Americans socialize daily), and increasing conversations with AI rather than humans. She warns that voice notes are "the most selfish form of conversation" because they don't require back-and-forth or consideration of the other person.
She provides practical advice for answering common questions. When asked "What do you do?" people should use the formula: "I do [blank] for [who], by [how]." For multi-hyphenated individuals, she suggests framing it as "I daylight as X but moonlight as Y" or describing career pivots as hero stories.
On dating, Van Edwards argues against asking for Instagram handles instead of phone numbers, as Instagram provides curated, performative content that skips authentic Level One conversation. Dating apps, while limited, are preferable to deep social media stalking because they don't create false familiarity.
She emphasizes that conversation is a learnable skill, not an innate talent, and that it functions as "social health" analogous to physical health. The book was written because conversation is disappearing from culture at a critical moment when the next generations may talk more to technology than humans.
About this episode
Are you sabotaging yourself with terrible communication habits and unconscious body language? Unlock the secrets of human connection to cultivate charisma, forge deeper connections, and eliminate awkward small talk for good. Vanessa Van Edwards is a behavioral researcher and the author of Cues, Captivate, and her new book, Conversation. She returns to decode the underlying dynamics that shape relationships, providing actionable techniques to bypass social autopilot. She helps master non-verbal cues to prevent communication friction from harming your career and personal life. In this episode, she explains: ■ The Conversation Blueprint: How to navigate the three distinct psychological levels of interaction ■ The Autopilot Trap: Why socially scripted questions like "How are you?" or "What do you do?" actually destroy connection. ■ The Mechanics of Rizz: The exact science behind conversational turn taking, why speaking for more than 45 seconds creates friction. ■ Command with Body Language: How to instantly project warmth and competence by finding your maximum resonance point. ■ The Five Story Archetypes: How to decode the psychological narratives of the people around you. Chapters 00:00:00 Intro 00:02:16 How to Connect With Anyone 00:03:25 Why Great Conversation Is a Superpower 00:06:46 The 3 Questions That Build Instant Connection 00:18:04 The Fastest Way to Build a Real Connection 00:23:50 How to Get to Know Someone Fast 00:32:46 Why Genuine Curiosity Makes You More Charismatic 00:35:37 The Questions That Secretly Kill Conversations 00:40:45 What’s Worse: Talking Too Much or Too Little? 00:44:20 How to Know If You Talk Too Much 00:45:27 How to Spot a Conversational Narcissist 00:48:39 Ads 00:55:16 How to Know If You’re a Conversational Narcissist 01:08:55 The Real Reason First Dates Go Wrong 01:13:52 Can You Go Too Deep Too Quickly? 01:18:08 How to Rewrite the Story You Tell Yourself 01:22:55 The Psychology of Taking Control of Your Life 01:25:21 Ads 01:30:07 What Science Reveals About Luck and Success 01:36:09 The 5 Personality Archetypes Explained 01:42:41 Why Your Personality Changes How You Should Communicate 01:51:50 The Psychology of the “Unlucky Struggler” 01:55:48 How to Escape an Awkward Conversation 01:59:13 How to Build Aura and Rizz 02:00:35 How to Become More Charismatic 02:04:56 The Hidden Habits That Kill Your Charisma 02:09:04 What “Aura” Actually Means 02:13:26 The Eye Contact Trick That Builds Connection 02:16:16 How to Become an Exceptional Listener 02:22:28 Who This Book Was Really Written For Follow Vanessa: YouTube - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/4sKjzqT Instagram - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/8fFNJdo TikTok - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/CWueu1F You can pre-order Vanessa’s book, Conversations here: https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/A69YXE2 The Diary Of A CEO: ◼ Join DOAC circle here - https://doaccircle.com/ ◼ Buy The Diary Of A CEO book here - https://smarturl.it/DOACbook ◼ Shop The Diary Of A CEO collection: https://thediary.com/collections/shop ◼ Get email updates - https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt ◼ Follow Steven - https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Sponsors: Fiverr - https://fiverr.com/diary and get 10% off your first order when you use code DIARY Shopify - https://shopify.com/bartlett
Key Insights
- Van Edwards found through speed networking experiments with 500 people that 'What was the highlight of your day?' dramatically outperformed traditional questions like 'How are you?' and 'What do you do?' in creating connection.
- She argues that facts are 'stop signs' in conversation while stories are 'doorways'—fact-based questions trap people in autopilot, whereas story-based questions require genuine thought and engagement.
- Van Edwards contends that 95% of people have worked with someone who talks too much, and these chatty coworkers spend an average of 90 minutes per workday talking, with 71% of respondents saying this prevented them from working.
- She discovered through her VIP party experience that vulnerability and admitting awkwardness made her the most sought-after person in a room of billionaires and highly accomplished people, demonstrating that impressiveness creates distance while relatability creates connection.
- Van Edwards identifies two fundamental narrative types: contamination narratives (where people feel victimized by circumstances) and redemption narratives (where people believe they can overcome challenges), and research shows redemption narratives correlate with longer lifespan and better immune function.
- She argues that the question 'Do you feel lucky?' is a 'sneaker' question that appears casual but reveals someone's internal locus of control, and people who answer 'yes' tend to have higher gratitude, more agency, and greater confidence.
- Van Edwards states that only 3 in 10 Americans socialize on a day-to-day basis, and one in six people worldwide are affected by loneliness, partly because people are having fewer conversations and conducting more asynchronous communication.
- She claims that voice notes are 'the most selfish form of conversation' because they don't require turn-taking or responsiveness, and listening to them while multitasking means the listener isn't fully present.
- Van Edwards argues that people with 'maximum resonance point' in their voice—speaking on the out-breath at their natural vocal range—are listened to more and perceived as more confident, while higher-pitched or rapid speech signals anxiety.
- She found that 60-70% eye contact is ideal in Western cultures, not 100%, because full eye contact produces oxytocin but prevents complex thinking, whereas partial eye contact allows for connection and cognitive processing simultaneously.
- Van Edwards identifies five narrative archetypes that dictate conversational patterns, relationship patterns, work behavior, and romantic attraction: Ambitious Hero, Contented Pragmatist, Selfless Helper, Creative Disruptor, and Unlucky Struggler.
- She argues that asking for someone's Instagram handle instead of their phone number creates false intimacy through curated content, skips authentic Level One conversation, and leads to more awkward first dates because people feel they already know each other.
- Van Edwards contends that conversational turns should ideally last 15-30 seconds, and anything beyond 45 seconds veers into monologue territory, creating the sensation that one person is talking too much.
- She discovered that high-conflict people (estimated at 10% of the population) thrive on drama and can manipulate selfless helpers into their conflicts, sometimes even getting others to fight their battles for them.
- Van Edwards argues that Master conversationalists—whether introverts or extroverts—gain energy from conversations rather than losing it, because their conversations produce meaningful connection, whereas bad conversationalists experience dread and feel exhausted after social interactions.
Topics
Transcript
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