Ruby Thelot on Internet Culture, AI, and the Future of Taste
Ruby Justice Thurlow, a cyber ethnographer and NYU professor, discusses how internet culture is fragmenting into micro-communities with distinct languages and aesthetics, while AI and algorithmic systems are reshaping how content is created and consumed. He argues that taste—historically a framework for virtuous consumption—is reemerging as essential for navigating abundance in the age of AI and algorithmic capture.
Summary
Ruby Justice Thurlow explores cyber ethnography as the study of online group behavior and emerging digital phenomena. He explains that the field has accelerated due to rapid technology cycles, making it difficult for researchers to document novel social behaviors before they evolve. A key challenge is distinguishing genuine trends from algorithmic illusions: journalists and researchers may perceive trends as significant based on their own algorithmic feeds, when data analysis reveals different patterns. Thurlow cites his research on heteropessimism, finding that dating content on TikTok is predominantly positive, contradicting widespread media narratives.
Thurlow introduces the concept of "balkanization and babblification of the internet," describing how fragmented digital communities develop their own unique languages and aesthetics. Different subcultures (furries, incels, fashion communities) use identical words with completely different meanings, creating communication barriers when these terms break containment into mainstream culture. This fragmentation mirrors a pluriculture where there are multiple active cultural epicenters rather than a shared monoculture. Examples include Dime Square in New York and distinct regional tech cultures across America.
He describes the evolution of content creation through audience capture, algorithmic capture, and now "machinic capture"—where creators optimize for algorithms, their audiences, and increasingly for bot interactions. With Cloudflare reporting 50% of internet traffic as bots, Thurlow predicts a future of machine-to-machine content generation and "machinic taste," where AI systems create for other AI systems with their own aesthetic preferences.
On the question of new aesthetics, Thurlow argues that many exist but aren't mass-market because finance now dominates culture production. He notes that new aesthetics require search, novel philosophy, and synthesis (like Brazilian funk mixed with anime). However, current incentive structures—from financialized culture industries to advertising-based media platforms—discourage both creators and critics from uplifting non-mainstream work. He critiques his own field of criticism for prioritizing clicks over genuine judgment.
Thurlow traces taste historically to 17th-century England, where it emerged as a framework for consuming virtuously during periods of rapid wealth creation and cultural anxiety. Taste represented how to navigate abundance without moral decay. He argues we're in a similar moment facing AI abundance, wealth, and intelligence, making taste—as a virtue guiding daily decisions—increasingly relevant. Rather than mere aesthetic preference, taste is about becoming ungovernable by algorithmic systems.
On AI sentiment, Thurlow finds Americans exhibit a stated preference against AI but revealed preference for it. People fear job loss but use AI tools like ChatGPT for practical problems (fixing faucets, daily management). There's a language gap between abstract AI fears and concrete beneficial applications. He predicts techno-optimism will rise when AI benefits align with American constituents' desires (employment, stability, family provision) rather than with theoretical concerns about existential risk.
Thurlow also discusses evolving social cues in digital spaces. New platforms generate novel communication rules (acceptable texting response times, Instagram story meanings, close friends groups) that previously didn't exist. Unlike traditional etiquette guides, online rules vary by platform and person, requiring constant calibration. He notes a grassroots Gen Z/Alpha movement (Summer of Ludd) representing pushback against technology's infringement on all life aspects, though rejecting technology entirely remains difficult.
About this episode
Sophia Dew and Sofia Puccini are joined by Ruby Thelot, designer, artist, cyberethnographer, professor at NYU, and founder of 13101401, for a wide-ranging conversation about internet culture, AI, digital communities, and how technology is reshaping the way we relate to one another. Drawing on years of research into online behavior, Ruby explains how digital cultures form, why algorithms shape more than just what we see, and what AI is changing about creativity, communication, and identity. They discuss cyberethnography, online subcultures, "machinic taste," AI companions, social norms, internet language, and why Americans often say they dislike AI—even as they increasingly rely on it in everyday life.
Key Insights
- Journalists and researchers perceive trends based on their own algorithmic feeds, not necessarily reflecting broader prevalence—heteropessimism appeared dominant in media coverage but data showed dating content on TikTok is predominantly positive
- The internet has fragmented into distinct digital enclaves where the same words mean completely different things across communities, creating a 'babblification' problem when language escapes these bubbles into mainstream culture
- Content creators now face a three-way capture: audience capture (optimizing for what works with followers), algorithmic capture (optimizing for platform algorithms), and increasingly machinic capture (optimizing for bot interactions that constitute 50% of internet traffic)
- Taste historically emerged in 17th-century England as a framework for consuming virtuously during periods of rapid wealth creation and cultural anxiety, and we're entering a similar moment with AI abundance requiring guidance on virtuous technology use
- There exists a stated-versus-revealed preference gap on AI: Americans say they dislike AI generally but actively use chatbots for practical everyday problems, indicating a language issue rather than genuine rejection
- Finance has subsumed mass culture production, making it difficult to scale new aesthetics because cultural industries only greenlight projects predicted to perform well commercially
- New digital communication norms (acceptable texting response times, story engagement meanings) vary by platform and person, requiring people to calibrate behavior differently than traditional etiquette based on geography or ethnicity
- Critics and journalists have lost objectivity due to advertising-based platforms incentivizing clicks, preventing them from uplifting non-mainstream work or making genuinely critical judgments
Topics
Transcript
Americans don't like AI. AI is a very broad term. They all use chat. And like, I love it. I love chat. But they don't like AI. It's the boogeyman of like, I'm going to lose my job. But when I talk to mothers in Bryan, Texas, like, oh yeah, I had a leak in my faucet, whatever. I took a photo and in about an hour or two I was able to fix that thing. I love that. There's a bit of a language issue here around what does this technology do for me versus what is the negative impact that's coming in a somewhat near potential future. Today's episode comes from our list of recommended listening, where we…
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