Brian Lehrer and Malcolm Gladwell Talk Policing and Guns
Malcolm Gladwell discusses his book 'The American Way of Killing,' arguing that America's gun violence epidemic is a created problem distinct from peer nations, and that the country needs more police resources and community intervention programs rather than focusing solely on gun control. He contends the national conversation about gun violence is fundamentally dishonest, overlooking international comparisons and conflating different types of violence.
Summary
In this interview with Brian Lehrer on WNYC, Malcolm Gladwell promotes his new book examining America's gun violence crisis. Gladwell's central argument is that gun violence is not inherent to America but rather an 'invented epidemic'—countries like Canada and Western European nations have comparable demographics but drastically lower homicide rates, suggesting America is doing something fundamentally different.
Gladwell critiques the national conversation as dishonest in multiple ways. First, he argues America is actually under-policed compared to peer nations: Los Angeles (8.5 million people) has 8,500 police officers while Berlin has 18,000. This under-resourcing, he claims, forces police into reactive crisis management rather than community-based preventive policing. When police are overwhelmed, they rely more on force projection, leading to the violence that protesters decry.
Second, Gladwell distinguishes between 'instrumental violence' (crime committed to achieve a goal) and 'expressive violence' (emotional, spontaneous violence like street arguments). He argues most American homicides are expressive—young men settling disputes with guns—yet policy discussions focus on scenarios portrayed in Law & Order (instrumental crimes). This mismatch means solutions addressing rational actors (longer sentences, gun control) fail to address impulsive behavior.
Third, Gladwell examines the historical irony of gun rights in America. He traces the Second Amendment to plantation owners' desire to maintain slave patrols, and notes that 19th-century frontier towns—not modern progressives—enacted strict gun control ordinances when revolvers created violence spikes. Towns required visitors to surrender weapons, register firearms, or pay taxes to carry guns.
Gladwell criticizes both political sides. Democrats exhibit 'gun control fetishism,' focusing exclusively on a 25-30 year legislative battle while ignoring immediate interventions. Republicans resist reasonable policy. He argues successful interventions, like Baltimore's recent 350-to-under-100 homicide reduction, involve individualized prevention: identifying at-risk individuals, mediating conflicts, and connecting them to support services rather than threatening incarceration.
Callers and Gladwell discuss restoring trust between police and communities, citing Sir Robert Peel's principle that 'police are the people and people are the police.' He notes high European clearance rates (85-90% for homicides) result from community trust, while many American cities solve fewer than 50% because residents don't cooperate with police.
About this episode
<p>A dispatch from the book tour – Malcolm recently joined WNYC’s The Brian Lehrer Show for a conversation about his new book, The American Way of Killing. We’re sharing it here today, including listener phone calls about their own experiences and questions about the epidemic of gun violence in America. <br /><br />You can pre-order The American Way of Killing at <a href="http://pushkin.fm/audiobooks">pushkin.fm/audiobooks</a> or buy the book wherever books are sold.</p><p>See <a href="https://omnystudio.com/listener">omnystudio.com/listener</a> for privacy information.</p>
Key Insights
- Gladwell argues that gun violence is not inherent to America but an 'invented epidemic'—peer nations with similar demographics have homicide rates that are fractions of the U.S., indicating America is doing something structurally different.
- American cities are significantly under-policed compared to international counterparts; Los Angeles has 8,500 officers for its size while Berlin has 18,000, and police violence increases when departments are overwhelmed and operating reactively.
- Most American homicides are 'expressive violence' (emotional, spontaneous arguments between young men) rather than 'instrumental violence' (calculated crimes with rational goals), yet policy solutions focus on scenarios matching instrumental crime patterns.
- The Second Amendment originated not from frontier self-defense but from plantation owners' desire to maintain armed slave patrols, and Gladwell traces this through James Madison's efforts to mollify Southern states during constitutional ratification.
- 19th-century frontier towns enacted some of the strictest gun control ordinances in American history—requiring weapon surrender, registration, and taxes—because revolvers created dramatic violence increases, contradicting modern myths about the lawless Wild West.
- Gladwell criticizes Democrats for 'gun control fetishism' that focuses on a 25-30 year legislative battle while ignoring immediate interventions that could save lives, leaving vulnerable communities unprotected in the interim.
- Baltimore reduced annual homicides from 350 to under 100 in three years using individualized intervention: police identify at-risk individuals, mediate conflicts, and connect them to community support rather than relying on incarceration threats.
- Police solve far fewer homicides in American cities (often under 50%) than European cities (85-90%) because community members don't trust police enough to cooperate as witnesses, making trust-building central to actual crime reduction.
Topics
Transcript
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