Ep 1397 | The Cult-like NAR Church That Nearly Destroyed John Cooper
John Cooper of Skillet discusses his experience with spiritual abuse at a New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) church led by his brother-in-law, an alleged apostle claiming special authority over members. After 30 years in the church and attempts at biblical reconciliation, Cooper went public about the toxic leadership structure, resulting in a third-party investigation that confirmed abuse and the loss of 40% of the congregation.
Summary
John Cooper describes his 30-year involvement with a charismatic church where his wife's brother-in-law served as the 'apostle' and her father as an elder. Initially uncomfortable with apostolic terminology, Cooper believed it simply meant 'church planter' until discovering the church operated under a hierarchical authority structure rooted in NAR theology. Starting in 2020, Cooper began publicly addressing social justice ideology and other concerns, which prompted pushback from leadership despite his attempts to engage biblically.
The church's leadership, particularly the apostle, responded to Cooper's questioning with increasingly hostile tactics: dismissing his concerns without biblical explanation, demeaning him publicly in front of family members, and reframing his legitimate theological questions as divisiveness, gossip, and satanic influence. When Cooper submitted five detailed theological papers over three years challenging the apostle's teachings, none received substantive responses. Instead, leadership accused him of having a bitter, divisive spirit.
Cooper discovered that the apostle had secretly written his own doctrinal paper affirming apostolic authority—the very doctrine he publicly denied holding—but refused to disclose it to church members. The hidden doctrine taught that modern apostles like the church leader possess equal or greater authority than the Apostle Paul, that the apostle's hermeneutical interpretation is the only 'orthodox' way to read scripture in that church, and that members under 'apostolic covering' depend entirely on that leader for spiritual protection and fruitfulness.
After a third-party investigation confirmed longstanding spiritual abuse, the church leadership made no repentance or doctrinal disclosure, instead having the apostle stand before the congregation and declare he had committed no sin while asking compliant elders to stand in agreement. This prompted Cooper's decision to go public, not for album promotion but to protect remaining members from the manipulative structure. Cooper's experience manifested in severe physical symptoms—chronic pain, insomnia, depression—which resolved only after he achieved clarity that he was following God's leading despite the church's opposition.
The broader issue Cooper identifies is that NAR churches operate with unaccountable authority structures wherever a single leader claims special revelation or apostolic insight, creating environments where questioning leadership is treated as rebellion against God. This pattern exists across denominations and internationally, not just in charismatic churches. Cooper's new EP 'After the Storm' addresses suffering more broadly while drawing from his experience, emphasizing that young people need to hear they matter despite the nihilistic world they've inherited.
About this episode
Allie is joined by lead singer of “Skillet,” John Cooper to discuss spiritual abuse, the new apostalic reformation (NAR), and his new EP “After The Storm." For the past few years, John has faced challenges with his former church, specifically regarding undisclosed doctrine and the spiritual abuse of his family and other congregants. In this episode, John discusses the problematic doctrine of present-day apostleship rooted in NAR theology and why it contributed to spiritual abuse in their church. Skillet's new EP “After The Storm” expresses the emotions and struggles behind suffering and how God is faithful even in the darkest moments. This is an informative episode for those who have experienced “church hurt,” a beautiful example of seeking peace even when it seems impossible, and, ultimately, an encouragement to stand firmly planted in what’s true. Do you have a question for Allie? Leave a voicemail at 844-755-5252 Share the Arrows 2026 is on October 10 in Dallas, Texas! Tickets are on sale now at: https://sharethearrows.com Share the Arrows is sponsored by: A'del Natural Cosmetics: AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Range Leather: RangeLeather.com/ALLIE We Heart Nutrition: WeHeartNutrition.com – Time Codes 00:00 Intro 00:45 John’s conversation with Alisa Childers 5:00 John’s story-the epidemic of the “Moses Model” 8:43 Similarities to 2020 BLM, the beginning of disagreements 25:55 The decision to go public 34:48 A third party was hired 38:24 “Sowing division”? 43:04 What is the New Apostalic Reformation? 48:17 Personal struggles and spiritual warfare 58:39 John’s guiding light 1:02:29 Skillet’s upcoming EP – Today's Sponsors: Alliance Defending Freedom | Visit JoinADF.com/ALLIE or text ALLIE to 83848 to make TWICE the impact. World Watch News | Visit worldwatch.news/allie or use promo code “ALLIE” to start your free trial today. Hillsdale College | Go to hillsdale.edu/RELATABLE to enroll. It's totally free. Good Ranchers | For a limited time, you can get a free Ground Beef bundle with your first Good Ranchers or Just visit goodranchers.com/allie to claim your free Ground Beef Bundle. Everylife Diapers | Visit Everylife.com , and use promo code “ALLIE10” to get 10% off your first order today! Episodes You May Like: Satanic or Sanctified? Skillet Gets Real About Christmas Controversy | John Cooper | Ep 1281 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-zcHv2Mpw0 'Apostle' Kathryn Krick: The Truth About Her Viral Exorcisms | Ep 1374 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlPGD9dhO9I Speaking Tongues or Nonsense? Rebutting Bad TikTok Theology | Ep 1173 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX1D76lz8WA --- ► Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": https://www.toxicempathy.com ► Buy Allie's book "You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": https://alliebethstuckey.com/book ► Subscribe to the podcast: iTunes: https://apple.co/2UVssnP Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2FwkXxj ► Connect with Allie on social media: https://twitter.com/conservmillen https://www.instagram.com/alliebstuckey/ https://facebook.com/allieBlazeTV/ ► "Relatable" merchandise — use promo code ALLIE10 for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey
Key Insights
- The NAR churches Cooper describes use 'apostle' terminology interchangeably with 'church planter' in public while privately teaching that modern apostles possess authoritative offices equivalent to or exceeding biblical apostles like Paul.
- The church's leadership refused to provide biblical explanations for their authority structure, instead shutting down discussion and reframing theological questions as character flaws in the questioner.
- An elder privately revealed he possessed the apostle's hidden doctrinal paper affirming apostolic authority but refused to share it with Cooper, claiming doing so would constitute gossip rather than necessary disclosure.
- The apostle taught that his hermeneutical interpretation is the only 'orthodox' way to read the Bible in his church, making disagreement with his biblical interpretation logically impossible for members.
- Cooper experienced severe physical manifestations of stress including chronic foot and knee pain, back pain, depression, and insomnia that resolved within months of leaving the controlling church structure.
- The church responded to the third-party investigation confirming spiritual abuse by having the apostle publicly deny committing any sin and requesting elders to stand in agreement, demonstrating how the theology justifies continued authority despite findings of abuse.
- Spiritual abuse operates through weaponized concepts like 'apostolic covering,' claiming that members who leave the leader's authority lose spiritual protection and supernatural fruitfulness, creating fear-based compliance.
- Cooper's attempts to follow biblical reconciliation processes for two and a half years were met with refusal to explain doctrine or engage theologically, suggesting the leadership system cannot withstand transparent theological scrutiny.
- The pattern of denying teachings while secretly affirming them in private documents, combined with silencing accusations against questioners, created a reality-distorting environment where Cooper questioned his own sanity.
- Spiritual threats—such as accusations of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit or warnings that leaving the apostle's covering causes harm to family members—serve as extreme silencing mechanisms in these churches.
- Cooper identifies the core danger as any church structure with pyramidal authority where one person claims special revelation or insight that cannot be biblically challenged by members or even other elders.
- The abuse manifested not as consistent mistreatment but as oscillation between positive relationship and sudden demeaning behavior, making it difficult for members to recognize the pattern as systematic rather than personal conflict.
Topics
Transcript
My apostle stood up in front of the church saying, there's been a third party hired, but I can tell you there has been no sin. I have not sinned at all. He even asked his elders, he said, elders, if you agree that I haven't sinned, would you stand up? There's two that didn't, all the other ones stand up, which is good. We're all sitting there. I'm like, this is the most culty thing I have ever seen in my life. Not a lot of people seem to mind except the people that are leaving. They don't understand that theology matters because it makes you act a certain way. The third party said, yeah, this is abusive. John,…
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