Neither Confirm Nor Deny
Radiolab explores the origins and consequences of the phrase "neither confirm nor deny," tracing it to a 1975 CIA response about a covert Cold War submarine recovery mission. The phrase has since become ubiquitous across government agencies and popular culture, creating legal and transparency challenges that can delay public accountability for years.
Summary
The episode begins with host Latif Nasser's frustration with meaningless warning labels like "may contain peanuts," drawing a parallel to government non-answers. ProPublica data editor Jeff Larson files a simple FOIA request to the NSA asking what metadata they have about his phone calls. The NSA responds with a mysterious letter stating they can "neither confirm nor deny the existence or non-existence" of such records.
Larson's colleague identifies this as a "Glomar response," prompting investigation into its origins. The story traces back to Project Azorian, a secret CIA operation in the late 1960s aimed at recovering a sunken Soviet submarine (K-129) from the ocean floor. The submarine, located three miles down, contained nuclear missiles and classified information. The CIA partners with billionaire Howard Hughes, using his company as a cover story for building the Hughes-Glomar Explorer ship equipped with a massive eight-fingered claw mechanism.
During the 1974 recovery attempt, the claw successfully lifts the submarine but loses its grip at 9,000 feet, with most of the submarine (including the nuclear warheads and potentially codebooks) sinking back to the ocean floor. CIA lawyer Walt Logan faces a dilemma when journalists begin reporting on the failed mission: he must respond to FOIA requests truthfully while protecting classified intelligence sources and methods, yet cannot confirm or deny anything. He develops the "Glomar response" in about half an hour of work.
The phrase addresses an impossible contradiction—confirming existence would reveal secrets to adversaries, while denying would be dishonest. The court eventually upholds this logic, arguing that revealing even the existence of documents can endanger national security. The phrase becomes standard government practice across numerous agencies (Commerce, Treasury, Energy, CDC) and eventually enters popular culture through celebrities and publicists.
NPR reporter Dina Temple-Rastin explains how the government exploits this ambiguity: agencies can conduct background briefings with unnamed officials to correct public perception while maintaining deniability. Meanwhile, the Soviet government similarly kept the K-129 disaster secret, leaving the widow of the submarine's second-in-command with a death certificate reading "Presumed dead" for 30 years—a cruel non-answer about her husband's fate. The transcript concludes with the insight that while Glomar responses technically lose in court, by the time truth emerges, public attention has moved on.
About this episode
Whether it comes from government spokespeople or celebrity publicists, the phrase “can neither confirm nor deny” is the perfect non-denial denial.
Key Insights
- CIA lawyer Walt Logan developed the "neither confirm nor deny" response to satisfy contradictory legal obligations: tell the truth under FOIA while protecting classified intelligence sources, creating a phrase that says nothing while avoiding direct falsehood.
- The government argues that confirming or denying surveillance of an individual reveals program contours to adversaries, but this logic extends to routine metadata that poses minimal security risk, exemplifying how the phrase enables excessive secrecy.
- The Glomar response functions primarily as a delaying tactic, forcing litigants into two years of court proceedings before substantive arguments even begin, which large organizations like the ACLU can afford but most citizens cannot.
- Soviet widow Irina Zhuravina received a death certificate reading 'Presumed dead' for her husband because both the U.S. and Soviet governments kept the K-129 submarine disaster secret, demonstrating how secrecy can inflict lasting cruelty on families seeking answers.
- Once the Glomar response achieves its delaying effect and truth eventually emerges years or decades later, public attention has moved on to other issues, meaning accountability arrives too late to affect contemporary debate or policy.
Topics
Transcript
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