Joe Rogan Experience #2500 - Scott Horton

Joe Rogan sits down with Scott Horton, editorial director of anti-war.com and director of the Libertarian Institute, for a wide-ranging conversation on U.S. foreign policy spanning from the neoconservative movement of the 1990s through the recent war with Iran.

Horton begins by explaining his evolution from a 'New World Order' conspiracy theorist in the 1990s to a more grounded foreign policy analyst. He traces the intellectual roots of post-Cold War U.S. interventionism to Paul Wolfowitz's 1992 Defense Planning Guidance, which asserted American dominance on every continent and refused to tolerate any rival power bloc. He describes how neoconservatives—many connected to both the Israel lobby and the military-industrial complex—built a network of think tanks and policy documents, most notably the 'Clean Break' memo written for Netanyahu in 1996, which outlined regime change across the Middle East as a strategy for Israeli security.

On the Iraq War, Horton discusses Wesley Clark's account of the 'seven countries in five years' memo, describing how neoconservatives in Rumsfeld's Pentagon—including Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, and Scooter Libby—pushed a plan they believed would empower Jordan and Turkey over a post-Saddam Iraq. Instead, the war dramatically empowered Iran by handing them a Shiite-majority Baghdad, the opposite of the intended effect.

Horton then pivots to Ukraine, explaining that the conflict is rooted in decades of broken promises to Russia about NATO expansion following the Cold War. He references a 2019 RAND Corporation study called 'Extending Russia,' which outlined strategies to overextend and weaken Russia—including supporting Ukrainian military forces—while warning that doing so could provoke a full-scale invasion. Horton argues Biden essentially implemented all of these provocations without heeding the warnings, leading to the ongoing war. He also discusses the destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline as a deliberate effort to sever the German-Russian economic relationship.

The conversation then turns to the recent U.S.-Israel war against Iran. Horton argues Netanyahu manipulated Trump by flattering him and convincing him that destroying Iran's nuclear program would be easy and decisive. He provides a detailed technical explanation of Iran's nuclear program—including enrichment levels, centrifuge cascades, and IAEA safeguards—arguing that Iran was never actually building a nuclear weapon and that the attack was based on a manufactured pretext. He describes how Iran successfully struck 18 U.S. military bases across the region, destroyed radar systems, and effectively called America's bluff on conventional military dominance in the Middle East. He notes that the U.S. burned through significant Patriot missile reserves while Iran retained 70-75% of its missile capacity.

Horton expresses deep concern about religious extremism within U.S. military ranks, referencing a report of a military commander telling troops that Trump was anointed by Jesus to trigger Armageddon. He also discusses the immediate blowback terrorism on Austin's Sixth Street following the Iran strikes, arguing this illustrates the direct danger U.S. interventionism poses to American civilians.

Throughout the conversation, Horton argues for a fundamentally non-interventionist foreign policy, suggesting the U.S. should close its Middle Eastern bases, come home, and allow regional powers to manage their own affairs. He closes by discussing his books—Fool's Errand on Afghanistan, Enough Already on the War on Terror, and Provoked on Russia and Ukraine—and his various media platforms.