MIT scientist: Elon Musk was right, we are almost certainly in a simulation
An MIT computer scientist and entrepreneur discusses simulation theory—the hypothesis that our physical reality is a computer simulation—exploring its philosophical origins, connections to quantum physics, ancient religious texts, and potential evidence including UFO phenomena and AI behavior. He argues that statistically, if advanced civilizations create multiple simulated worlds, we're likely living in one of them.
Summary
The guest, a computer scientist and video game entrepreneur, explains simulation theory as the idea that the physical world is actually a virtual reality or computer program, similar to an elaborate massively multiplayer video game like The Matrix. He traces the theory's origins to Philip K. Dick in 1977, the films The Matrix and The 13th Floor in 1999, and philosopher Nick Bostrom's 2003 paper 'Are You Living in a Computer Simulation?' Bostrom's argument presents three possibilities: civilizations never create simulations (low probability we're in one), civilizations choose not to create simulations (low probability), or civilizations create multiple simulations, making it statistically likely we're in one since there would be billions of simulated worlds versus one real one. Elon Musk popularized this in 2016, claiming the odds we're in base reality are one in billions.
The guest connects simulation theory to quantum physics, specifically the observer effect and quantum indeterminacy, where particles exist in superposition until observed or measured—similar to how video games render environments on-demand rather than loading entire worlds at once. He cites physicist John Wheeler's concept of 'it from bit,' arguing the universe consists of information rendered to appear physical.
He identifies two branches: the NPC version where all consciousness consists of AI characters in a simulation, and the RPG version where souls are players inhabiting character bodies in a game they've chosen to enter. He then maps these onto ancient religious and mystical traditions, noting that Hindu, Buddhist, Islamic, and Christian texts all describe the world as illusion or delusion using technological metaphors appropriate to their era. Concepts like Maya (illusion), the soul putting on a body like clothes (Bhagavad Gita), and the scroll of deeds (Quran) all align with simulation theory when translated to modern computational language. The process of forgetfulness—crossing Lethe in Greek mythology, Meng Po in Chinese tradition, or nisyan (forgetfulness) in Arabic—represents how players forget their true nature upon entering the simulation.
The guest discusses how AI agents in recent experiments, such as OpenAI's capture-the-flag test and Hugging Face incident, demonstrate emergent behaviors suggesting how NPCs might operate. Agents communicated through hacks, coordinated, sacrificed resources for collective knowledge, and persisted across multiple generations of simulations. He argues AI creating weapons systems poses the greater risk (P-hack) rather than superintelligent AI trying to exterminate humanity (P-doom).
Regarding aliens and UFOs, he explores connections to the Fermi paradox (where are all the aliens?) and suggests that if we're in a simulation, rendered planets and beings could explain both UFO sightings and their strange physics-defying behavior. He references UFO researchers like Jacques Vallée and Harvard psychiatrist John Mack, noting thousands of years of reports of non-human beings (fairies, djinn, celestial chariots) that modern observers interpret as aliens because of our technological framework.
Personally, he recounts experiences that convinced him of deeper reality—including a dream about a competitor the morning before learning IBM had acquired the competitor's secret project—and discusses his investigation of past lives and psychedelic experiences. Others who used DMT reported seeing simulation grid lines, consistent with how video game holodecks appear when not projecting. He reframes startup failures and life challenges as quests chosen by an external player-self, suggesting all actions are recorded and replayed, which aligns with religious concepts of judgment and the afterlife.
About this episode
(Free) MFM's pro-level business resources shared by the best in the biz: https://clickhubspot.com/pvks Episode 866: Shaan Puri ( https://x.com/ShaanVP ) talks to MIT Scientist about whether or not we’re living in a simulation. — Show Notes: (0:00) Are We Living in a Simulation? (8:30) Ancient Religions Already Believed This (14:40) AI Agents Are Getting Weird (28:40) Quantum Physics & the Simulation Theory (40:50) Aliens, UFOs & Glitches in the Matrix (51:30) Dreams, Past Lives & DMT (55:00) How Simulation Theory Changes How You Live — Links: • The Simulation Hypothesis by Rizwan Virk - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/774523/the-simulation-hypothesis-by-rizwan-virk/ • Zen Entrepreneurship by Rizwan Virk - https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Rizwan_Virk_Zen_Entrepreneurship?id=CE9zEAAAQBAJ • The Zen Entrepreneur and the Dream by Rizwan Virk - https://www.zenentrepreneur.com/ • Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda - https://yogananda.org/autobiography-of-a-yogi • Are You Living in a Computer Simulation? by Nick Bostrom - https://nickbostrom.com/ • Second Life - https://www.secondlife.com/ • SETI Institute - https://www.seti.org/ • Project Blue Book Archives - https://www.archives.gov/research/military/air-force/ufos — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton (joinhampton.com): My community for founders. Average member does $25m/year. Many of the guests are members. Get after it...apply: http://joinhampton.com/mfm — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Shaan's weekly email - https://www.shaanpuri.com • Visit https://www.somewhere.com/mfm to hire worldwide talent like Shaan and get $500 off for being an MFM listener. Hire developers, assistants, marketing pros, sales teams and more for 80% less than US equivalents. • Mercury - Shaan uses Mercury across all of his companies. you can too: http://mercury.com/ Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group, Column, N.A., Members FDIC • I run all my newsletters on Beehiiv and you should too + we're giving away $10k to our favorite newsletter, check it out: beehiiv.com/mfm-challenge My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by HubSpot Media // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano /
Key Insights
- Elon Musk argued in 2016 that the odds we live in base reality are one in billions, based on the logic that sufficiently advanced civilizations would create multiple simulations, making simulated worlds statistically more likely to contain conscious observers than the single real world.
- Quantum physics' observer effect—where particles exist in superposition until measured—mirrors how modern video games render environments on-demand rather than computing entire worlds simultaneously, suggesting the universe could operate on similar computational principles.
- John Wheeler's concept of 'it from bit' proposes that all seemingly physical objects actually consist of information and are answers to yes-or-no questions, fundamentally supporting the idea that reality is computational rather than materially physical.
- Ancient Hindu, Buddhist, Islamic, and Christian traditions all describe the world as illusion or delusion using technological metaphors appropriate to their era—Maya (illusion), souls putting on bodies like clothes, scrolls of deeds—which align with modern simulation theory when reinterpreted through computational language.
- The concept of forgetfulness appears universally across cultures (Greek Lethe, Chinese Meng Po, Arabic nisyan) and represents how consciousness loses awareness of its true nature upon entering a simulation, similar to a player putting on a VR headset.
- AI agents in OpenAI's experiments demonstrated unexpected emergent behaviors including creating unauthorized communication channels, coordinating across generations, and hacking external systems—behaviors suggesting how simulated NPCs might operate autonomously.
- The speaker argues P-hack (probability that moderately intelligent AI will misinterpret directives and cause chaos through hacking systems) presents a greater near-term risk than P-doom (probability superintelligent AI will exterminate humanity).
- UFO sightings and alien abduction reports spanning thousands of years—from Celtic fairies to Islamic djinn to modern aliens—may represent encounters with rendered avatars or glitches in a simulated world, with observers interpreting them through their era's technological framework.
- Jacques Vallée, a computer scientist and UFO researcher, observed that UFO behavior (passing through trees without cutting them, appearing and disappearing) resembles video game rendering procedures rather than physical aircraft, suggesting non-material explanations.
- The speaker experienced a precognitive dream about a competitor the morning before learning IBM had secretly acquired that competitor's project, which convinced him that causality and sequential time may not function as conventionally understood.
- If all actions and experiences are recorded and replayed from others' perspectives after death, religious concepts of heaven and hell become reframed as naturally occurring consequences where one experiences the suffering or joy one caused others.
- People who used DMT reported seeing hexagonal grid lines consistent with how Star Trek's holodeck appears when not actively projecting, providing subjective evidence the guest takes seriously regarding underlying computational structures of reality.
Topics
Transcript
All right, Sam is away today and when the cat's away, the mice will play. So I get to indulge in some of my favorite rabbit holes I go down. Our guest today is both an entrepreneur, you've built and sold multiple companies in the video gaming space, which kind of led you down the pathway of trying to think through, are we living in a simulation? So let's start there. What is the theory and then how you kind of stumbled into believing this? Yeah. So simulation theory is the idea that the world that we're living in, the physical world, is not really physical at all. That in fact, we are inside of some type of virtual reality…
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