MacroVoices #468 Darius Dale: Changing World Order
Darius Dale discusses his systematic macro framework focusing on sticky inflation, fourth turning dynamics, and Trump's policy implications. He argues inflation will bottom around 2.6% and trend higher throughout 2025, challenging the Fed's 2% target, while analyzing the 'Triple S' risks from policy changes.
Summary
In this comprehensive interview, 42 Macro founder Darius Dale presents his systematic approach to macro investing, built around tracking growth, inflation, monetary policy, fiscal policy, and liquidity variables. Dale strongly endorses Jim Bianco's Mar-a-Lago Accord hypothesis about changing monetary regimes and contextualizes current economic conditions within the framework of a fourth turning - a period of major institutional and geopolitical change lasting into the late 2020s or early 2030s. His central thesis is that inflation is inherently sticky and will not return to the Fed's 2% target without a recession, which he doesn't expect. Dale's secular inflation model suggests an equilibrium rate in the high 2% to low 3% range, driven by five key factors: structurally tight housing markets, the Fed's poor job of reining in liquidity since the regional banking crisis, rising domestic credit growth, the reversal of positive labor supply shocks from reduced immigration, and leading indicators supporting his hawkish inflation outlook. He introduces the 'Triple S' theme (analyzing President Trump's policy agenda impacts), noting that negative supply shocks from tariffs and border security measures may come before positive impacts from tax cuts, deregulation, and DOGE budget cuts. Dale expects the DOGE process to disappoint markets because two-thirds of the federal budget (Medicare, national defense, Social Security, and net interest) are ring-fenced from cuts, while these categories are compounding at 15% annually. He anticipates core PCE inflation will bottom at 2.6% in January 2025 and trend higher throughout the year, reaching 3% by August, contradicting Wall Street consensus expectations of continued disinflation.
About this episode
MacroVoices Erik Townsend & Patrick Ceresna welcome, Darius Dale. They will dive into the data intensive slide deck that Darius is best known for and talk about everything from sticky inflation to the growth outlook. https://bit.ly/4b7KviM 🔻Download Big Picture Trading Chartbook 📈📉: https://bit.ly/4hJa0cM ✅Sign up for a FREE 14-day trial at Big Picture Trading: https://bit.ly/4cMmu0d 🔴 Subscribe to Patrick’s Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Patrick_Ceresna 🔴 Subscribe to Erik's Substack: https://eriktownsend.substack.com/ 🔴 Check out Energy Transition Crisis on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EnergyTransitionCrisis1 Please visit our website https://www.macrovoices.com to register your free account to gain access to supporting materials
Key Insights
- Dale argues that inflation is the most lagging indicator in the business cycle, typically not breaking below trend until 12-15 months after a recession starts
- He contends that without a recession, core CPI, headline CPI, and PCE inflation will not break durably below trend, contrary to Fed expectations
- Dale's secular inflation model consistently shows an equilibrium core PCE inflation rate in the high 2% to low 3% range, nearly double the prior cycle's 1.6%
- He identifies five fundamental reasons for sticky inflation: structurally tight housing markets, Fed's failure to drain liquidity, rising credit growth, reversal of labor supply shocks, and supportive leading indicators
- Dale argues that the Fed's 2% inflation target is 'ridiculous' and 'made up' given structural changes in the economy
- He warns that the DOGE process will likely disappoint because two-thirds of the federal budget is ring-fenced from cuts while compounding at 15% annually
- Dale expects core PCE inflation to bottom at 2.6% in Q1 2025 and trend higher throughout the year, reaching 3% by August
- He argues that term premium in the 10-year Treasury should be much higher at 150 basis points versus current 33 basis points, suggesting fair value of 5.68%
- Dale contends that the private sector now owns 56% of marketable Treasury securities versus 36% historically, requiring higher yields to attract price-sensitive buyers
- He believes the Fed will eventually capitulate and raise their inflation target, allowing for necessary monetary debasement in a fiscally dominant regime
- Dale argues that President Trump's reciprocal tariff strategy reduces the risk of an overly strong dollar that would damage global liquidity
- He expects the Treasury General Account drawdown of $500+ billion over 3-5 months will provide liquidity support to asset markets in the near term
Topics
Transcript
This is Macro Voices, the free weekly financial podcast targeting professional finance, high net worth individuals, family offices, and other sophisticated investors. Macro Voices is all about the brightest minds in the world of finance and macroeconomics telling it like it is, bullish or bearish, no holds barred. Now, here are your hosts, Eric Townsend and Patrick Ceresna. Macro Voices episode 468 was produced on February 20th, 2025. I'm Eric Townsend. 42 Macro founder Darius Dale returns as this week's feature interview guest. Darius is a regular Macro Voices listener, and he requested that we start his interview this week with Darius's reactions to last week's interview with Jim Bianco. Darius. Thanks, Jim. On to something important with the Mar-a-Lago…
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