The enemies of the Roman Empire who almost destroyed it | Anthony Kaldellis and Lex Fridman
Anthony Kaldellis discusses how the Byzantine Empire survived multiple crises through cycles of decline and recovery, arguing that external threats rather than internal decay caused the 11th-century collapse, and emphasizing that historians should focus on the institutional structures and mechanisms that enabled long-term resilience rather than dramatic peak moments.
Summary
In this conversation, Kaldellis explores the Byzantine Empire's history through the lens of cyclical patterns of crisis and recovery. He describes how the empire, after a period of defensive warfare, experienced a 10th-century renaissance under the Macedonian dynasty, with emperors like Basil II leading expansionist campaigns into Syria, Cyprus, the Caucasus, and Bulgaria. This prosperity was followed by an 11th-century crisis driven by simultaneous external threats: the Seljuk Turks from the east (who brought vast reserves of manpower and caused demographic/ecological transformation of Asia Minor), Pecheneg horsemen from the north, and Norman knights from the west—a three-pronged attack no medieval state could realistically withstand.
Kaldellis challenges the traditional historiographical approach that attributes Byzantine decline to internal moral decay and neglect of the military by civilian emperors. He argues this reflects a methodological bias rooted in the "decline and fall" model that primes historians to seek internal flaws. Instead, he contends that exogenous (external) shocks caused the territorial losses and crises, not structural weaknesses. He acknowledges internal problems existed—particularly the end of the Macedonian dynasty's two-century rule, which created political instability as insecure emperors without dynastic legitimacy spent heavily on political support, creating budget pressures—but maintains these were secondary to external pressures.
Kaldellis advocates for a fundamental reframing of how we understand Byzantine history. Rather than defining the society by its brief crises, he argues we should focus on the internal mechanisms—institutions, ideologies, and economic structures—that enabled centuries-long periods of recovery, consolidation, and steady growth. He criticizes "peak-to-peak" histories that compress 1,200 years into short books, jumping from highlight to highlight (Justinian's reign, crises) without explaining the interconnecting mechanisms in the valleys between peaks. His approach in his book "The New Roman Empire" deliberately illuminates these institutional and ideological foundations to show how people's lives were tied to broader historical trajectories.
Kaldellis also introduces revisionist ideas about Byzantine identity and governance, including the concept of a "monarchical republic" where emperors faced broader political participation and Roman Republican traditions persisted, and the idea that Byzantine identity was more ethnically Roman than previously understood. He concludes that understanding long-lived societies requires examining the structural foundations that enabled resilience, not just the dramatic moments of crisis or triumph.
Key Insights
- Kaldellis argues that no medieval state could realistically survive simultaneous attacks from three fundamentally different types of enemies: Norman knights representing new Western warfare doctrine, Pecheneg nomadic horsemen, and Seljuk Turks backed by vast reserves of Central Asian manpower who were terraforming agricultural land into pasture
- The traditional historiographical field has a methodological bias to attribute state crises to internal structural flaws, rooted in the 'decline and fall' model, rather than considering that external exogenous shocks might hit a society with no serious structural problems and cause it to buckle
- Byzantine crises are discrete, sudden events caused by external challenges, followed by centuries-long periods of endogenous recovery and steady growth, and the society should be defined by these periods of resilience and regrowth, not by the brief crises themselves
- Short histories of the Byzantine Empire that compress 1,200 years into 100-200 pages jump between dramatic peaks (like Justinian's reign or crises) but fail to illuminate the institutional and ideological mechanisms in the 'valleys' that actually connected these moments and sustained society
- The end of the Macedonian dynasty's two-century rule created political instability where insecure childless emperors without dynastic legitimacy had to buy political support through exemptions and cash, which caused budget problems and increased pressure when armies needed to address external threats
Topics
Transcript
[0:02] you have written uh one of the books is streams of gold, rivers of blood, the rise and fall of Bzantium 955 AD to the first crusade. So this period has we talked about survival and some low points. This is a period where once again there's some flourishing. Uh so by the 10th century in the Macedonian era, the empire is back. It's wealthy. is culturally confident and under emperors like uh Basil II [0:35] uh who I think is in your top 10 list. >> Mhm. >> Uh it is expanding again and um this is a period you describe in part in your book streams of gold rivers of blood. So how did Bzantium go from…
Full transcript available for MurmurCast members
Sign Up to AccessMore from Lex Clips
Do antipsychotic drugs work? | Andrew Scull and Lex Fridman
Andrew Scull discusses the efficacy and serious side effects of antipsychotic drugs, explaining that while they help some patients, many are non-responders, and the medications carry substantial risks including tardive dyskinesia, weight gain, metabolic syndrome, and cognitive dulling. The landmark CATIE study revealed that newer, expensive second-generation antipsychotics are no more effective than older first-generation drugs, with 67-82% of patients dropping out due to inefficacy or intolerable side effects.
Surprising origin of antipsychotic drugs | Andrew Scull and Lex Fridman
Andrew Scull explains how chlorpromazine, an antihistamine synthesized in the 1880s, was accidentally discovered to have psychiatric applications in the 1950s through French Navy lieutenant Alain Laborit's experiments. The drug's rapid adoption was driven by pharmaceutical companies' aggressive marketing to politicians and hospital administrators rather than by psychiatrists' initial enthusiasm, transforming it from a 'major tranquilizer' into the first 'antipsychotic' drug.
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) vs Psychoanalysis | Andrew Scull and Lex Fridman
Andrew Scull discusses how clinical psychology and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) emerged after WWII as alternatives to psychoanalysis, becoming dominant through better empirical evidence, shorter treatment duration, and federal funding advantages. CBT's symptom-focused approach proved more measurable and reproducible than psychoanalytic theory, though its effectiveness remains limited for serious mental disorders.
Do anti-depressant drugs work? | Andrew Scull and Lex Fridman
Andrew Scull discusses the history and efficacy of antidepressants, particularly SSRIs like Prozac, explaining that while they statistically outperform placebo, the clinical improvement is often marginal and comes with significant side effects including sexual dysfunction and withdrawal difficulties. He also addresses 'diagnostic creep' in psychiatry, where conditions become increasingly broadly defined and diagnosed over time.
How drugs and psycho-pharmacology changed mental health | Andrew Scull and Lex Fridman
Andrew Scull traces the accidental discovery of psychopharmacology, beginning with chlorpromazine's unexpected psychiatric effects in the 1950s, and discusses how pharmaceutical companies transformed mental health treatment while also introducing serious side effects like tardive dyskinesia and metabolic complications that remain inadequately addressed.