Advice Line with Chieh Huang of Boxed
Chieh Huang, co-founder of Boxed (which went bankrupt in 2023), joins Guy Raz to provide business advice to three entrepreneurs: Alec of Surfing Cow (skincare made with beef tallow), Jessica of Tail Cinch (reusable horse tail ties), and Eli of Makor Coffee (anti-inflammatory coffee blend).
Summary
In this episode of the Advice Line, Chieh Huang, co-founder of the online bulk retailer Boxed, returns to help entrepreneurs solve business challenges. Huang first appeared on How I Built This in 2021, and he shares his journey from launching Boxed in 2013 to its bankruptcy filing in 2023, followed by his work at the World Economic Forum and his new company Pelgo, which provides outplacement services. The first caller, Alec from California, runs Surfing Cow, a skincare brand using beef tallow that's grown from zero to projected $200,000+ in sales within two years. He seeks advice on scaling while maintaining the brand's personal touch, with Huang and Raz advising him to find a contract manufacturer and consider small amounts of outside capital. The second caller, Jessica from Indio, California, founded Tail Cinch, which makes reusable tail ties for horses as an alternative to wasteful electrical tape. With $70-80,000 in annual sales over four years, she asks about joining platforms like Chewy for brand awareness despite thin margins, with the hosts encouraging the move while warning about working capital challenges. The third caller, Eli from Minneapolis, co-founded Makor Coffee, an anti-inflammatory coffee blend with turmeric, cinnamon, and other spices. His challenge is that the fine spice particles cause brewing issues in large batches, with the hosts suggesting different formulations for different brewing methods and exploring innovative formats like single-serve pouches.
About this episode
<p>Today’s callers: Alec from California wonders if it’s time to bring production for his beef tallow skincare brand out of his kitchen to a co-manufacturer. Then, Jessica from California has a hit horse care product on her hands: is a major pet distributor a dream partnership or a brand-killer? And Eli in Minnesota is curious if he should tweak his signature anti-inflammatory coffee blend for bulk brewing or protect the original taste?</p><p>Plus, Chieh reflects on his exit from Boxed and how his latest venture helps people through similarly significant career transitions.</p><p>Thank you to the founders of Surfing Cow, Tail Cinch, and Makor Coffee for being a part of our show.</p><p>If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode—where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders—leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298. </p><p>And be sure to listen to <a href="https://wondery.com/shows/how-i-built-this/episode/10386-boxed-chieh-huang/?queryID=15aab058bc94424ce6e5d01219cc2c8" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Boxed</a> as told by Chieh on the show in 2021. </p><p>This episode was produced by Rommel Wood with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. </p><p>You can follow HIBT on <a href="https://x.com/HowIBuiltThis" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">X</a> & <a href="https://www.instagram.com/howibuiltthis/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a> and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at <a href="http://guyraz.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">guyraz.com</a> and on <a href="https://guyraz.substack.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Substack</a>.</p><p>See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.</p>
Key Insights
- Huang argues that despite Boxed's bankruptcy, he would choose the same entrepreneurial journey again because of the people met, lessons learned, and impact created
- Huang claims that most business outcomes are binary - either very big or zero - so founders shouldn't worry too much about giving up equity if it enables significant growth
- Huang identifies that macroeconomic factors including being an unprofitable small-cap COVID e-commerce story made Boxed vulnerable when stock prices declined and stakeholders got spooked
- Raz suggests that for consumer brands, the core foundation often isn't the unique ingredient but the lifestyle it represents, using Surfing Cow as an example where 'surfing' matters more than 'cow'
- Huang observes that pet and horse owners represent markets where customers are typically not cost-conscious, making them attractive target demographics
- Huang notes that challenges in manufacturing and formulation can create sustainable competitive moats because competitors must solve the same difficult problems
- Raz argues that innovation often comes from reimagining product formats, citing Justin's nut butter pouches as an example of how packaging innovation can transform a business
- Huang emphasizes that the entrepreneurial reward is the journey itself, consisting of constant problem-solving that becomes enjoyable and meaningful over time
Topics
Transcript
Hello, and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Boxed co-founder, Che Wang. Che, it's so great…
Full transcript available for MurmurCast members
Sign Up to AccessMore from How I Built This with Guy Raz
Sun Bum: Tom Rinks. The Secrets of a Master Brand Builder (2023)
Tom Rinks shares his journey from furniture salesman to brand-building entrepreneur, highlighting his creation of iconic brands like Psycho Chihuahua (which led to a five-year lawsuit against Taco Bell), De Leon Tequila, and ultimately Sunbum sunscreen, which sold to SC Johnson for $400 million in 2019. Throughout his career, Rinks emphasizes the importance of design, authenticity, branding principles, and knowing when to step back and hire better operators.
Advice Line with Jeni Britton of Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams (2025)
Jenny Britton of Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams returns to the Advice Line to help three food entrepreneurs navigate growth challenges: Jesse and Ben's navigating marketing strategy for frozen French fries entering national retail, Casey White of Jaju Pierogi deciding between bootstrapping and raising capital for CPG expansion, and Callie of Ube.co determining whether to hire a PR firm or develop in-house marketing capabilities. Jenny and Guy emphasize focusing on product quality, authentic messaging, and strategic use of advisors over external capital when possible.
Catalina Crunch: Krishna Kaliannan. From Homemade Keto Cocoa Puffs to Breakfast Aisle Breakthrough
Krishna Kalyanin created Catalina Crunch, a high-protein, low-carb keto cereal, after developing type 1 diabetes and epilepsy in college forced him to adopt a ketogenic diet. Starting from his apartment kitchen in 2017, he scaled the business to over $100 million in annual sales by leveraging new alternative ingredients like pea protein and monk fruit, eventually expanding from direct-to-consumer sales to major retailers like Whole Foods and Costco.
Advice Line with Ronnen Harary of Spin Master/PAW Patrol
In this episode of How I Built This Lab's Advice Line, Ronan Harari from Spin Master offers guidance to three entrepreneurs: Ann Williams of Yearly Co. (luxury gold jewelry), Felix Cullen of Island Bee Company (honey and skincare products), and Matt Smith of Wandering Soul Beer (craft beer). Harari emphasizes the importance of innovation, brand storytelling, and maintaining work-life balance while building sustainable businesses.
Advice Line with Susan Griffin-Black of EO Products
Susan Griffin-Black, founder of EO Products, advises three entrepreneurs on scaling their businesses: Dr. Ruchi Gupta (Yobi skincare) on choosing between DTC and professional channels, Peter Andrews (Culture Wine Company) on focusing on specific regional markets for South African wine distribution, and Dominic Giddens (Cane Dog Coffee) on building an international brand from a Caribbean base.