Bill Ackman: Investment Strategy, What the Market is Missing, How AI Breaks Businesses
Bill Ackman discusses his evolution as an investor, emphasizing business quality and long-term durability over short-term activism. He shares his views on AI's impact on business models, the undervaluation of large tech companies, and his plan to transform Howard Hughes Corporation into a Berkshire Hathaway-style compounding machine using insurance float.
Summary
Bill Ackman opens by describing his evolution as an investor, explaining that the most significant change over time has been an appreciation for long-term, durable, protected, and non-disruptible business growth. He recounts an early activist campaign at Wendy's International, where he identified that the value of Tim Hortons exceeded the entire market cap of Wendy's, and used public pressure and a Blackstone fairness opinion to force a spin-off — illustrating how his tactics have shifted from aggressive public campaigns to leveraging his established reputation for more collaborative board-level engagement.
On AI, Ackman argues that we are in the greatest era in history to build a business, with unlimited access to compute, capital, and talent — but that this also dramatically raises the risk of disruption for incumbent businesses. He notes that while capital is flowing toward chips, semiconductors, and energy, high-quality companies like Microsoft, Meta, and Amazon are being left behind and are trading at historically low multiples, drawing a parallel to how Berkshire Hathaway was undervalued during the dot-com bubble. He is cautious about SaaS companies with monopolistic pricing and niche products, suggesting they face real disruption risk, while believing platform companies with low per-seat pricing are more defensible.
Ackman reflects on his high-profile CNBC appearance during COVID-19 in March 2020, clarifying that his motivation was less about markets and more about pressuring President Trump to implement a two-week national shutdown to prevent hospital overflow. He explains that valuation acts like a tether or rubber band — when stocks get extremely cheap, there is a psychological and fundamental force pulling them back up, and calling that out publicly can itself catalyze a reset.
On venture-style investing, Ackman explains that companies like SpaceX, OpenAI, and Anthropic should be underwritten using a venture framework — evaluating people, opportunity, context, and deal terms — even though they are late-stage. He is personally invested in X and XAI through an SPV, and praises OpenAI CFO Sarah Friar's articulation of capital allocation strategy, saying it made him more bullish and that she should be CEO.
Ackman endorses the founder-led company thesis, arguing that founders have longer time horizons, larger economic stakes, full authority to make bold decisions, and a track record of making difficult calls — advantages that professional CEOs with short tenures and misaligned compensation structures lack. He cites Zuckerberg's acquisitions of Instagram and WhatsApp as examples of founder conviction paying off.
Regarding Howard Hughes Corporation, Ackman outlines his plan to replicate Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway model: buy a discounted asset-heavy company, inject insurance operations, invest the insurance float in short-term treasuries, and invest equity surplus in common stocks — creating a long-term compounding machine. He traces Howard Hughes back to its origins as a General Growth bankruptcy spin-off and acknowledges it has traded at a persistent discount because of its real estate and development nature. The goal is to transform it into a trillion-dollar compounding entity over 50 years without issuing additional stock.
Finally, Ackman discusses the three ways to invest alongside him: Pershing Square (the management company, which is a royalty on compounding), PSUS (a public vehicle trading at an 18% discount holding his best ideas), and Howard Hughes Corporation. He also reflects on the power of social media, noting that his large Twitter following allows him to communicate his investment thesis directly to millions, though he distinguishes his influence from meme stock dynamics driven by figures like Ryan Cohen.
About this episode
<p>(0:00) Bill Ackman joins the show!</p> <p>(0:30) Evolving investment philosophy: What's changed over 20 years?</p> <p>(4:40) AI: Greatest time to build a business, and a major threat to portfolios</p> <p>(7:50) Predicting market moves, the "rubber band effect"</p> <p>(16:00) Owning founder-led companies</p> <p>(19:30) Building the next Berkshire Hathaway</p> <p>Thanks to our partners for making this possible!</p> <p>EY - Agentic AI is introducing a new investment discipline. As AI shifts to consumption-based models, EY connects spend to enterprise value.</p> <p><a href="https://www.ey.com/en_us/insights/ai/agentic-ai-token-costs?WT.mc_id=3501318&AA.tsrc=sponsorship"> https://www.ey.com/en_us/insights/ai/agentic-ai-token-costs?WT.mc_id=3501318&AA.tsrc=sponsorship</a></p> <p>NYSE - Thank you to our partner, the New York Stock Exchange - a modern marketplace and exchange for building the future. It all happens at the NYSE.</p> <p><a href="https://www.nyse.com">https://www.nyse.com</a></p> <p>Plaud - Never miss a moment. Plaud, our official wearable AI note-taking partner at All-In Liquidity Summit, captured every insight.</p> <p><a href="https://www.plaud.ai">https://www.plaud.ai</a></p> <p>Follow Bill Ackman:</p> <p><a href="https://x.com/BillAckman">https://x.com/BillAckman</a></p> <p>Apply for Summit 2026:</p> <p>https://allin.com/events</p> <p>Follow the besties:</p> <p>https://x.com/chamath</p> <p>https://x.com/Jason</p> <p>https://x.com/DavidSacks</p> <p>https://x.com/friedberg</p> <p>Follow on X:</p> <p>https://x.com/theallinpod</p> <p>Follow on Instagram:</p> <p>https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod</p> <p>Follow on TikTok:</p> <p>https://www.tiktok.com/@theallinpod</p> <p>Follow on LinkedIn:</p> <p>https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod</p> <p>Intro Music Credit:</p> <p>https://rb.gy/tppkzl</p> <p>https://x.com/yung_spielburg</p>
Key Insights
- Ackman argues that the greatest era for building businesses also means the highest historical risk of disruption for incumbents, because unlimited access to compute, capital, and talent has lowered the barriers for startups to challenge established companies.
- Ackman contends that Microsoft, Meta, and Amazon are being treated as 'old-fashioned companies' in the OpenAI era and are trading at irrationally low multiples — similar to how Berkshire Hathaway was undervalued during the dot-com bubble while everyone chased internet stocks.
- Ackman claims his viral CNBC appearance in March 2020 was not primarily a market call but an attempt to pressure President Trump into a two-week national shutdown, using the TV platform as a megaphone to reach the White House.
- Ackman argues that Buffett's success at Berkshire Hathaway was driven primarily by managing the asset side of the insurance balance sheet rather than the liability side — a strategy nearly impossible to replicate because talented investors go to hedge funds, not insurance companies — but which he is now attempting to reproduce through Howard Hughes.
- Ackman asserts that founder-led companies have a structural advantage in navigating disruption because founders have longer time horizons, full decision-making authority, massive personal economic stakes, and a proven history of making difficult contrarian calls — whereas professional CEOs optimize for short-term compensation and avoiding career-ending mistakes.
Topics
Transcript
One of the most provocative and interesting investors in the country. A legendary activist investor. Pershing Square CEO and founder Bill Ackman. Taking a short position and going public with it is a pretty serious business. Interestingly, some of the best businesses in the world are trading at the lowest multiples. We're kind of the rebirth of the closed-end investment company universe. What did you think of Zara, the CEO of OpenAI? I'm sorry, CFO. Felt like the CEO. Yeah, I was... Stop with that stuff. Actually, I was super impressed. Made me a lot more bullish on OpenAI. And I thought she should be CEO of OpenAI. That's what I thought. I think Sam should be chair. I think…
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