Open Source Wins, AGI Is Here, and Scorsese’s AI Toolkit with CEOs of Cerebras & Black Forest Labs
Andrew Feldman (Cerebras CEO) and Robin Rombach (Black Forest Labs CEO) discuss the massive infrastructure buildout for AI, the emergence of AGI through reasoning models, and the role of generative AI in creative production. They explore how AI is becoming a tool for intent understanding, the importance of open-source models, and applications ranging from data center chip design to filmmaking partnerships with Martin Scorsese.
Summary
The conversation opens with a discussion of the unprecedented scale of AI infrastructure buildout currently underway globally. Feldman explains that data centers being constructed in the US, Canada, Nordics, Europe, Middle East, and Central Asia will consume more power in coming years than humanity used over the previous 50 years. Individual buildings are the size of football fields with power consumption exceeding midsize cities. Cerebras has a $25 billion backlog, and companies like OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, and Microsoft are insatiable in their demand, pre-ordering chips before production is complete. This represents a fundamental shift where demand far exceeds supply.
The hosts discuss token maxing—the overconsumption of AI tokens—and whether this represents genuine value creation or wasteful experimentation. Feldman argues that while some experimentation is wasteful, the net value is enormous, comparing it to early AWS adoption where engineers were given unlimited cloud credits. He notes enterprises are now moving toward strategic token allocation, with smarter personnel understanding systems-level deployment emerging as a critical skill. The conversation highlights how AI is transitioning from being a tool that requires precise prompting to one that understands user intent and suggests improvements the user didn't explicitly request.
A major focus is on reasoning models and inference. The hosts discuss Hermes agents and GLM-52 models, noting how unlimited compute enables extended reasoning chains. Feldman explains that Cerebras's inference chips are optimized for these reasoning workloads, which consume massive numbers of tokens internally. He notes Cerebras has broken Moore's Law, with plans to achieve more than 2x improvement in the next 18 months, moving away from traditional GPU architectures with their geometric limitations.
The conversation addresses open-source models versus frontier models. The hosts argue there's room for both: frontier models (OpenAI, Anthropic, Gemini) for hard problems, and open-source models for routine tasks. Feldman supports open-source development from a sovereignty and dependency perspective, noting companies want control over their infrastructure after historical lessons with Intel and GPU manufacturers. Concerns about data sovereignty and regulatory compliance in regulated industries (finance, healthcare) are driving adoption of on-premises open-source solutions.
On the Grok/reasoning model rollout debate, Feldman takes a nuanced stance. While noting the government's request for staged deployment testing before release isn't unreasonable—comparing it to pharmaceutical testing and cybersecurity red-teaming—he critiques the politicization of the decision. He argues that technical concerns about cyber threats are legitimate, but polarization prevents clear thinking. He emphasizes that both sides will make smart and dumb decisions, and the government's rank-and-file teams are trying hard to navigate unprecedented territory.
Rombach discusses Black Forest Labs' work on multimodal generative models spanning image, video, audio, and action prediction. He emphasizes the paradigm shift from simple text-to-image systems to complex multimodal models. The key innovation is latent diffusion—compressing natural data into efficient representations, then training transformers on those compressed spaces. This enables efficient generation across modalities.
A significant portion covers the Martin Scorsese partnership. Rather than proposing Scorsese use Black Forest's tools to create full films, Rombach positions them as a brainstorming and visualization medium. Scorsese can externalize his mental picture of a scene, iterate on visual outputs, and communicate his vision more effectively than through language alone. Rombach rejects the notion of a predetermined "correct" use case, emphasizing the model as a medium that different creators will deploy differently.
Rombach discusses practical applications beyond filmmaker use: startups using the tools for launch videos, the Bitcoin movie that eliminated green screens by generating scenery on soundstages, and the trajectory toward robotics. He notes the technology is rapidly improving in resolution and temporal coherence, unlocking more demanding production use cases. The conversation emphasizes that current video generation still requires human-in-the-loop iteration for best results.
On IP and content libraries, Rombach explains Black Forest restricts generation of certain trademarked IP in public tools but partners with IP holders to develop customized models. He suggests the most interesting future involves interactive content creation tools and enabling fan creators to develop new stories within established universes (referencing George Lucas's permission model for fan films). Licensing frameworks could allow consumers to customize creative experiences while compensating rights holders.
The hosts discuss both the economic dislocation and abundance created by AI. Feldman acknowledges some workers will face disruption (comparing it to carriages and horses), but emphasizes the pro side of the ledger: curing cancer, unlimited energy, unlimited education, and personalized AI tutoring (revisiting Socratic methods at scale). Rombach notes that training data can come from synthetic generation, YouTube analysis, or fine-tuning on specific robot hardware, with the goal of eventually reaching prompt-based control.
Key Insights
- Data centers being built across the globe will consume more power in the next several years than humanity used over the previous 50 years, with individual buildings having power consumption exceeding midsize cities
- Unlimited tokens enables unlimited reasoning, allowing models to run for 24-48 hours producing weeks or months worth of thinking equivalent, which fast inference chips like Cerebras can accomplish in dramatically compressed timeframes
- Cerebras has broken traditional Moore's Law trajectory and expects more than 2x improvement in the next 18 months because newer architectures have room for optimization that 20-year-old GPU architectures lack
- Latent diffusion works by compressing natural data (images, video, audio) into efficient representations, then training transformers on those compressed spaces, enabling the same model to generate across multiple modalities and predict actions for robotics
- Martin Scorsese uses generative models primarily as a visualization and brainstorming tool to externalize mental pictures of scenes and communicate his creative vision more effectively than language allows, rather than as an automated filmmaking system
Topics
Transcript
[0:00] We are in the race for super intelligence and uh Andrew Feldman is back uh and obviously CEO and founder of uh Cerebras doing inference chips pioneered the space had a successful IPO. We've talked about this a couple of times. We got to see each other in January at Davos. IPO happens. Uh the boys and I got to sit with you recently. >> That was fun >> at liquidity. >> That was really that was really fun. >> Had a great discussion with the boys. I wanted to deep dive with you about a [0:30] couple of topics. The first one is the buildout of AI. We've never seen a build out like this since, you know,…
Full transcript available for MurmurCast members
Sign Up to AccessMore from All-In Podcast
Chamath: 3 Things Every Company Needs in the Age of Superintelligence
Chamath outlines three critical requirements for companies deploying superintelligence: end-to-end traceability to understand operations, mapping policies to risks, and maintaining audit evidence for accountability. He argues these practical governance measures are superior to delaying AI deployment through multinational regulation.
Jake Paul & The Chainsmokers: Turning Fame into Funds, Jake Enters Politics? & Venture Bubble Signs
A wide-ranging discussion featuring Jake Paul on entrepreneurship, boxing, and venture capital, followed by The Chainsmokers discussing their evolution from music producers to serious venture investors. Both segments explore how entertainment figures leverage fame and attention into sustainable business empires.
Daniel Ek: Life After Spotify, Broken Healthcare Incentives, Catching Disease Early & AI's Potential
Daniel Ek, Spotify's co-founder and now executive chairman, discusses his transition to healthcare through his new company Neko, which offers comprehensive preventive health screening for $499. The conversation covers Spotify's founding challenges, healthcare system incentive problems, and AI's potential in medical diagnostics and beyond.
Jason Calacanis: AI Is About to “Blow People’s Minds”
Jason Calacanis argues that AI products like Grok and Muse are reaching a tipping point where average consumers can derive real, tangible benefits for everyday tasks. He predicts that by year-end, ordinary people will adopt these tools as free personal assistants, marking a significant moment in AI democratization that could benefit lower-income Americans.
Jason Calacanis: Dario Seems to Be Sabotaging His Own IPO
Jason Calacanis critiques Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei for actions that appear to undermine the company's IPO prospects, specifically opening a lab after citing existential AI risks. Calacanis argues this represents a failure of leadership and suggests the board should replace the CEO with someone focused on running the company rather than sabotaging it.